Taking guns out of lawful citizen owners hands will just make criminals bolder and just make street guns more expensive. When someone wants to commit a crime and they have nothing to lose price means shit.
Until you show me a utopian society that has been created cause of banned guns only then you will change this typical Americans mind. Until then I will keep my multiple handguns and my ar with all variety magazines legal for me to have.
Sorry if I confused you.In my country and other EU countries we use KM insted of miles.Originally Posted by blinddeafmute
1 kilometer = 0.621371192 miles
1 mile = 1.609344 kilometers
Oderint dum metuant.
It was a joke, chief.
You don't need to go to the library or use the internet to make a bomb, instead just go to the liquor store and buy some hard liquor(vodka), open up the bottle and stufff a rag in it and light it. Throw it and boom, instant fire ball. There are plenty of house hold items you can purchase at the local grocery store that can be used to make bombs. The point I am trying to make is that if someone is willing to kill innocent people they will find a way to do it by all means.
The argument I have had with Jimmors is the size of the magazine the AR-15 this POS Homes used. From what I read it was 100 round magazine that jammed which would be typical since most guns are designed for smaller magazine(25-30 rounds). The larger the magazine the chances you have of jamming the gun or over heating the barrel. I am sure there are some precision made magazines that will not jam but you would need a skilled person that will know how to utilize the weapon and keep it from jamming. Who knows if this POS Holmes had gone into the theater with 25-30 round magazine what damage he could have done by keeping the barrel cool and shooting in intervals.
Did someone just compare baking a cake to killing people? I'm thinking that the desire for fatty to bake a cake is just an itty-bitty different than the desire to enter a crowded facility and start killing people.
It's funny, this whole "making it harder" line of thought. All these bans do is make it harder for law abiding citizens to obtain a banned object. Criminals (actual or potential) do NOT give a shit about the law to begin with. If you think someone who is hell bent on opening fire in a crowded theater is going to be discouraged to the point of giving up over having to 1) pay a bit more money for their weapon of choice, 2) shrug his shoulders and give up because he can't obtain this weapon legally or 3) find a way to do the crime by using a work-around.... you're obviously on fucking drugs. A ban on SOME weapons only makes a criminal get a different weapon.
See this....?
Spoiler
That is a semi-automatic .308. It functions in EVERY way the same as the AR (unless we want to direct the conversation toward hand-to-hand combat and bayonet charges!) but would NOT be banned if the AWB was still in-place. It doesn't have a folding stock, pistol grip, bayonet mount, flash suppressor or a barrel shroud. And you had to have TWO of those to be considered under the previous ban.
The ONLY way for any firearm ban, ANY ban at all, to be effective... is the total banning of ALL firearms. And that is the ultimate goal of ANY ban they put in place. Because once you realize that those functions listed above are merely cosmetic and not necessary to achieve semi-automatic fire, the next thing to do is to decide to ban those that PERFORM in that way. And then the above hunting rifle, and any semi-auto, is banned. And shit... why stop there? Revolvers are one-pull, one shot, so might as well put revolver's on that list since you can also obtain cylinder's that are snap-in/out just like a magazine, or speedloaders which can cause a reload in just a very few seconds.
Besides.... there is a reason dumb-ass chose to enter a gun-free zone. The #1 thing that "makes it harder" for someone to kill other people is the idea that those other people may very well be armed and willing to fight back.
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┌∩┐(◣_◢)┌∩┐
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards." - Claire Wolfe
"Possibly, but it's not to early to start loading ammo!" - Loki
You cant just ban guns to create this "Utopian society," you also have to change our culture, and unfortunately violence (gun or otherwise) is ingrained into our culture.
But yes, there are countries that either ban or have very strict gun laws combined with very low gun death rates.
Unquestionably, the AWB was a very flawed law in many ways...Did someone just compare baking a cake to killing people? I'm thinking that the desire for fatty to bake a cake is just an itty-bitty different than the desire to enter a crowded facility and start killing people.
It's funny, this whole "making it harder" line of thought. All these bans do is make it harder for law abiding citizens to obtain a banned object. Criminals (actual or potential) do NOT give a shit about the law to begin with. If you think someone who is hell bent on opening fire in a crowded theater is going to be discouraged to the point of giving up over having to 1) pay a bit more money for their weapon of choice, 2) shrug his shoulders and give up because he can't obtain this weapon legally or 3) find a way to do the crime by using a work-around.... you're obviously on fucking drugs. A ban on SOME weapons only makes a criminal get a different weapon.
See this....?
Spoiler
That is a semi-automatic .308. It functions in EVERY way the same as the AR (unless we want to direct the conversation toward hand-to-hand combat and bayonet charges!) but would NOT be banned if the AWB was still in-place. It doesn't have a folding stock, pistol grip, bayonet mount, flash suppressor or a barrel shroud. And you had to have TWO of those to be considered under the previous ban.
The ONLY way for any firearm ban, ANY ban at all, to be effective... is the total banning of ALL firearms. And that is the ultimate goal of ANY ban they put in place. Because once you realize that those functions listed above are merely cosmetic and not necessary to achieve semi-automatic fire, the next thing to do is to decide to ban those that PERFORM in that way. And then the above hunting rifle, and any semi-auto, is banned. And shit... why stop there? Revolvers are one-pull, one shot, so might as well put revolver's on that list since you can also obtain cylinder's that are snap-in/out just like a magazine, or speedloaders which can cause a reload in just a very few seconds.
Besides.... there is a reason dumb-ass chose to enter a gun-free zone. The #1 thing that "makes it harder" for someone to kill other people is the idea that those other people may very well be armed and willing to fight back.
Although I do not support a ban on assault rifles, I continue to struggle with your just as over the top and reactionary rhetoric as those who might seek to...
The above "hunting" rifle is a Valmet M88 Hunter... Valmet is the long time maker of Finnish military grade weapons and the lineage between those weapons and M88 is pretty clear...not that there's anything wrong with that...but I would suggest that "hunting" was not only function this weapon was deigned to perform...once again, not that there's anything wrong with that...(that phase is usually used sarcastically; in this case it is not)...
The problem I have calling the M88 (or any rifle like it) a "hunting rifle" is the 20 round mag...regardless of the situation or game, I can think of no reason a legitimate and ethical hurter would need a 20 round mag...if someone wants to own a semi-auto with 20+ round clip, that's fine with me...but just don't try and tell me it's for "hunting"...
Reductio ad absurdum...it's how we roll...
I agree, the 20 rd mag is pretty excessive for hunting. I don't know if It's typical for states, but Indiana has limits on how much ammo you can carry for most hunting. I think some small game and fowl are limitless.Can someone explain the logic to me that somehow laws against large magazines would have deterred this guy, when laws against murder and laws against owning explosives did not? I mean, hes going to be sentenced to a bajillion years in prison, but somehow a fine for owning a large capacity mag would have kept this from happening....
Although not illegal, I am sure/hope/trust LE monitors the buying and selling of certain fertilizers...you know the ones that can make the front of whole buildings disappear...
If someone with bad intentions attempts to buy a large quality of those chemicals, I hope that (potentially) sends up a red flag to LE...maybe/hopefully giving them time to step in a stop something before it happens...
I think the same logic could apply to large capacity mags...of course, with fertilizers nobody cares if LE monitors who's buying it...unfortunately, when it comes to anything gun related, there is a certain lobby that will go ape shit if LE start monitoring who's buying legal mags regardless of there capacity...
Last edited by Wolfman; 07-27-2012 at 08:57 AM.
Reductio ad absurdum...it's how we roll...
Its not about "deterring" him, its about limiting his options. If you make it more difficult (read: illegal) to buy certain things, such as ARs and huge round magazines, then it would become more difficult for psychos like him and other criminals to obtain them. Could they still do it? Yes, but as i said: more difficult.
And to put it in a different perspective, now that the news has made it clear that all his guns were bought LEGALLY, then who's to say the next psycho down the road wont get the bright idea of trying to obtain an assault rifle himself? Im sure that anyone who is deranged enough to commit a crime like this in the future is definitely paying attention to the details in this case, including how he obtained his weapons. And if they were bought illegally, then this person would have to figure out how to go about obtain weapons illegally, since not everyone has the right connections to that. But, if they know they can purchase them legally, then there is very little from stopping them from doing so. As we just saw, background checks are no where near perfect.
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