Thread: Another Massacre in Colorado

see jimmors post below, agreed.

Originally Posted by ZifanQ

So why have them if you gotta defend yourself anyway? Can't you just shoot the guy and if he survives then just have some lawyers to change him for the crime?
But yes it is horrible for the families and for their friends etc.. horrible..


No but if you can go into a shop and buy a gun no wonder why there's so many shootings in U.S. if you had to "hunt" a guy down to get a gun then it would be a lot harder, and there would be fewer shootings.
This guy have only got pulled over for driving to fast, he was a student and was close to finish his edcuation, now let's say this wasn't planned but just impluse a few days ago or so, then isn't it a bit stupid he can get a gun in a matter of day? Rather than having a hard time looking for a gun in thecriminal environment?

I don't get the hole "protect yourself" mentallity really.. there is NO reason to have police if you just can shoot the guy that are threating you.

I get what you are saying, but I have to ask:

Are you in favor of outlawing knives and cutlery of all sorts? How about baseball bats and other items that can be used as a weapon?

Do you really think that people just go out and buy guns without background checks and permits?

Do you really think that the vast majority of criminals buy guns legally?

Do you really think that outlawing guns would rid any country of guns?

Again, what motivation would a criminal have to turn over his gun if he knew there was less likelihood that anyone could defend themselves if he kept it?

Please remember that criminals have no problem not complying with the law. Bombs are illegal, yet this guy had an apartment w/ enough explosives to blow up the entire block. Did the law prevent THAT determined person from doing something illegal?

I don't honestly follow the statements about the shooter being pulled over for speeding. It doesn't make sense and doesn't correlate to anything I've read.

I honestly forget which country it is, but there is a country (I want to say New Zealand or something) where 90+% of the citizens own guns and they have an incredibly low rate of violent crime - like half of what Euro countries who have outlawed guns have (England for instance). So which is it, the chicken or the egg?

And as for the police question - do you honestly think that arming everyone would eliminate the need for police?

Your perspective as a European is interesting, certainly, but I also find your assumptions about america entertaining.

Originally Posted by Jimmors

ZifanQ, if you want to debate gun control, take it to the bar scene. This is the general forums, we are just discussing this horrific tragedy here, theres no need to involve political discussions here.

Yeah, you are right. Party foul. My apologies.

It's sad and I hope it doesn't turn into a pol football. Already I hear the sabre-rattling with UN treaties to mold to control here.

Glad to hear you're okay, Soul. Actually you were the first thing that came to my mind when I heard about the shooting.

Originally Posted by ZifanQ

So why have them if you gotta defend yourself anyway? Can't you just shoot the guy and if he survives then just have some lawyers to change him for the crime?
But yes it is horrible for the families and for their friends etc.. horrible..


No but if you can go into a shop and buy a gun no wonder why there's so many shootings in U.S. if you had to "hunt" a guy down to get a gun then it would be a lot harder, and there would be fewer shootings.
This guy have only got pulled over for driving to fast, he was a student and was close to finish his edcuation, now let's say this wasn't planned but just impluse a few days ago or so, then isn't it a bit stupid he can get a gun in a matter of day? Rather than having a hard time looking for a gun in thecriminal environment?

I don't get the hole "protect yourself" mentallity really.. there is NO reason to have police if you just can shoot the guy that are threating you.

Zif I'm no NRA guy but there's a bumper sticker over here that's been around for years that says; "if you outlaw guns only outlaws will have guns". There's some truth to that. When you take away the right of the average citizen to protect himself you only make him more vulnerable to crime. Just like the Old West, the bad guys will always have guns and no how to use them. One effective counter force is for the good guys to have the same advantage.

Someone needs to investigate how the nutjob who did this got his hands on a 100 round assualt rifle and tear gas grenades or "flash/bangs" or whatever they were. As far as a weapon of mass destruction goes a 100 round assault rifle in the hands of an insane killer is about as effective at killing people quickly as it gets.

After he shot up the theater the cops caught him outside shooting at cars. You know what he gave them for a reason? He told them that he was "The Joker"! So somehow in his insane mind he convinced himself that he was a comic book villain and decides to create the same real life chaos that "Batman" the movie plays out on the silverscreen. Where in the fuck do these bozo's come from. Dylan and Klebold imagined themselves as some sort of antihero avenging angels called "The Trenchcoat Mafia" when they shot and killed students and a teacher at Columbine.

This guy was kid with revenge on his mind either. He was a 24 year old from San Diego who had moved here to pursue his Phd at the University of Colorado. That tends to proves my long standing argument that a college education doesn't make you smarter or more intelligent. Just better educated and if you look at all of the shootings which have taken place on college campuses it doesn't make some any more well adjusted to society or sane either.

This is just one more tradgedy that happened more because of somebody not realizing this guy was a "loose cannon" with some serious mental issues and what the authorities need to do is find out who sold him the weapons and charge them as an accomplice(s) to murder and attempted murder.

If you want to stop these senseless massacres then make it virtually impossible to get the kind of weaponry that only the police and the military have a need for. John Q. Public can own a handgun like his .40 cal but John Q. couldn't kill and wound 71 people with that before somebody got in his face and took it away. Even the damn shotgun he was carrying couldn't do that kind of damage.

In order to get those weapons back into the theatre he had to go out a security door then prop it open so that he could return armed and ready to kill. Why bother with the security door is nobody is gonna take the responsibility to see that it remains secure? So you can lay at least some of the blame here at the feet of the theatre for not finding a way to do that.

Was there no alarm set off that told the manager or whoever that someone had opended a door which shouldn't have been opened in the middle of a performance? If there was didn't anyone stop selling movie tickets and obscenely overpriced concessions long enough to bother with investigating?

So there are a lot of people at fault when something like this goes down Zif and it makes me both sad and insanely angry myself but restricting people from owning a gun to protect themselves isn't gonna stop things like this from happening. Maybe if just one other person near him when he started shooting was armed themselves he may have been stopped long before this became the tragedy it's become.

I don't own and never have owned a handgun but Colorado has a "concealed carry law" for those who take the time to become trained in the use of one and get a permit to carry one. Today I'm giving serious thought to changing my long term personal policy on owning and carrying one. I'm sure that if I was armed and a guy who was sitting nearby this guy would have beedn dead on the ground long before 71 people were either dead or inujured from his gunfire.

I really don't care at all for handguns myself but if that's the only effective resource I have to protect myself, my loved ones and others from a maniac with a gun then you bet your damn life I'd use it and God help the guy on the other end who's pointing one at me or mine. I may end up dead but I can tell you without a doubt that I'm taking him with me.
Colorado Movie Theater Shooting: 71 Victims The Largest Mass Shooting

By CLAYTON SANDELL, KEVIN DOLAK, and COLLEEN CURRY | Good Morning America – 3 hours ago

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Twelve people were killed and 59 were injured in Aurora, Colo., during a sold-out midnight premier of the new Batman movie "The Dark Knight Rises" when 24-year-old James Holmes unloaded four weapons' full of ammunition into the unsuspecting crowd.
The number of casualties makes the incident the largest mass shooting in U.S. history.
Holmes, a graduate student at a nearby college with a clean arrest record, entered the movie auditorium wearing a ballistics helmet, bullet-proof vest, bullet-proof leggings, gas mask and gloves. He detonated multiple smoke bombs, and then began firing at viewers in the sold-out auditorium, police said today.
Bullets from the spree tore through the theater and into adjoining theaters, where at least one other person was struck and injured. Ten members of "The Dark Knight Rises" audience were killed in theater, while two others died later at area hospitals. Numerous patrons were in critical condition at six local hospitals, the Aurora police said this afternoon.
Holmes was apprehended within minutes of the 12:39 a.m. shooting at his car behind the theater, where police found him in full riot gear and carrying three weapons, including a AR-15 assault rifle, which can hold upwards of 100 rounds, a Remington 12 gauge shot gun, and a .40 Glock handgun. A fourth handgun was found in the vehicle. Agents from the federal bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms are tracing the weapons.

According to police sources, Holmes told the officers arresting him that he was "The Joker," referring to the villain in the second installment of the Batman movie trilogy, "The Dark Knight." He also warned police that he had booby-trapped his apartment, leading officers to evacuate the Aurora apartment building.
Police Chief Dan Oates said today that police and bomb squads have found a large number of explosive devices and trip wires at Holmes' apartment and have not yet decided how to proceed without setting off explosions.
Read More: One Victim Had Narrowly Escaped Toronto Shooting
"The pictures we have from inside the apartment are pretty disturbing considering how elaborate the apartment is booby trapped," police said outside of the apartment complex today. The "flammable and explosive" materials could have blown up Holmes' apartment building and the ones near it, police said.
The apartment complex is home exclusively to University of Colorado Medical Center students, patients, and staff members, residents tell ABC News.
Moviegoer Christopher Ramos today recalled the real-life horror of the midnight premiere of the latest Batman movie, "The Dark Knight Rises," in Aurora, Colo., as a gunman decked in riot gear set off smoke bombs and opened fire on the unsuspecting audience.
"People were running everywhere, running on top of me, like kicking me, jumping over me. And there were bodies on the ground," Ramos said. "I froze up. I was scared. I honestly thought I was going to die."
"The image in our heads is stuck in there. I still have the ticket right here and honestly, I'm never going to forget this night at all. Because it was the first time I saw something that was real. Like a real-life nightmare that was there, not dreaming of," Ramos told ABC News today.
Witnesses in the movie theater said Holmes saw smoke and heard gunshots that they thought were part of the movie until they saw Holmes standing in front of the screen, after entering from an emergency exit. Holmes methodically stalked the aisles of the theater, shooting people at random, as panicked movie-watchers in the packed auditorium tried to escape, witnesses said.
At one point the shooter exited the theater only to wait outside the doors and pick off patrons as they tried to exit, witness Jennifer Seeger told "Good Afternoon America."
Photos: Shooting "Dark Knight Rises" Screening in Aurora, Colorado
"You just smelled smoke and you just kept hearing it, you just heard bam bam bam, non-stop. The gunman never had to reload. Shots just kept going, kept going, kept going," one witness told ABC News.
"I'm with coworkers and we're on the floor praying to God we don't get shot, and the gunshots continue on and on, and when the sound finally stopped, we started to get up and people were just bleeding," another theatergoer said.
The suspected shooter will face his first court appearance next week, according to district attorney Carol Chambers.
Holmes, originally of San Diego, moved to Aurora to pursue his Ph.D. at the University of Colorado medical center, living just blocks from the hospital in an apartment that police say is now laced with explosives and being searched by HazMat teams.
Federal law enforcement sources tell ABC News that Holmes bought a ticket to the movie, slipped out of the theater once it began and propped open the emergency exit before gathering his weapons and gear and coming back into the theater. Once inside, he opened fire.
A San Diego woman identifying herself as James Holmes's mother spoke briefly with ABC News this morning.
She had awoken unaware of the news of the shooting and had not been contacted by authorities. She immediately expressed concern that her son may have been involved.
"You have the right person," she said.
"I need to call the police," she added. "I need to fly out to Colorado."
The woman and her husband later released a statement saying their "hearts go out to those who involved in this tragedy and to the families and friends of those involved. We are still trying to process this information and we appreciate that people will respect our privacy."
The highly-anticipated third installment of the Batman trilogy opened to packed auditoriums around the country at midnight showings on Friday morning, and features a villain named Bane who wears a bulletproof vest and gas mask. Trailers for the movie show explosions at public events including a football game. Though many moviegoers dressed in costume to attend the opening night screening, police have made no statements about any connection between the gunman's motives and the movie.

Read More: NRA Deletes Tweet After Shooting
Police in New York have intensified security around showings of the film throughout the five boroughs today, with Police Commissioner Ray Kelley saying that "as a precaution against copycats and to raise the comfort levels among movie patrons in the wake of the horrendous shooting in Colorado, the New York City Police Department is providing coverage at theaters where the 'The Dark Knight Rises' is playing."

The Paris premiere of the movie has been cancelled in the wake of the shootings. "Warner Bros. and the filmmakers are deeply saddened to learn about this shocking incident. We extend our sincere sympathies to the families and loved ones of the victims at this tragic time," the movie's producers said in a statement.
Witnesses watching movies in theaters next to the one where the shooting took place said bullets tore through the theater walls and they heard screaming.
Read More: Obama and Romney Respond to Shooting
"The suspect throws tear gas in the air, and as the tear gas appears he started shooting," said Lamar Lane, who was watching the midnight showing of the movie with his brother. "It was very hard to breathe. I told my brother to take cover. It took awhile. I started seeing flashes and screaming, I just saw blood and people yelling and a quick glimpse of the guy who had a gas mask on. I was pushed out. There was chaos, we started running."
One witness said she saw people dropping to the ground after the gunshots began.
"We were maybe 20 or 30 minutes into the movie and all you hear, first you smell smoke, everybody thought it was fireworks or something like that, and then you just see people dropping and the gunshots are constant," witness Christ Jones told ABC's Denver affiliate KMGH. "I heard at least 20 to 30 rounds within that minute or two."
A man who talked to a couple who was inside the theater told ABC News, "They got up and they started to run through the emergency exit, and that when she turned around, she said all she saw was the guy slowly making his way up the stairs and just firing at people, just picking random people," he said. "The gunshots continued to go on and on and then after we didn't hear anything...we finally got up and there was people bleeding, there was people obviously may have been actually dead or anything, and we just ran up out of there, there was chaos everywhere."
Witnesses and victims were taken to Gateway High School for questioning.
Hundreds of police and FBI agents are involved in the investigation. A senior official who is monitoring the situation in Washington said that early guidance based on the early snapshot of this man's background indicated that this act does not appear to be linked to radical terrorism or anything related to Islamic terrorism.
Dr. Comilla Sasson, at the University of Colorado Hospital where many of the victims were taken, said they are currently operating on nine critical patients and have treated 22 in all. She called the hospital "an absolutely terrifying scene all night."
"The good news is that the 3-month-old has actually been discharged home and is in the care of their parents
In a statement, President Obama said, "Michelle and I are shocked and saddened by the horrific and tragic shooting in Colorado. Federal and local law enforcement are still responding, and my administration will do everything that we can to support the people of Aurora in this extraordinarily difficult time. We are committed to bringing whoever was responsible to justice, ensuring the safety of our people, and caring for those who have been wounded."
For continuing coverage on "Tragedy in Colorado: The Batman Massacre," tune in to "World News," "20/20" and "Nightline."
Matthew Mosk contributed to this report.

iallan

Originally Posted by Jimmors

Maybe should just move this thread anyway?

I thought about putting it there to begin with Jimmors but I figured more would become aware of it if I posted here. I don't have any problem with moving it if we're gonna use this to debate gun control though that was clearly NOT my intention.

If the staff thinks it should be moved we can move it or simply begin another thread in the BS about how gun control would impact or not impact acts of this nature.