Connecticut school shooting: Reports say more than 20 dead

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Originally Posted by Jimmors

Plausible? Like inferring that Chris Nolan had some kind of insight into the Newtown shooting simply because part of a map in his movie lists "Sandy Hook?" Like that is MORE plausible?

As far as the Emile Parker thing goes...ive seen this claim before and it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure it out: Her sister is wearing her dress. Yeah yeah i know, its not as exciting a theory as "OMG SHES NOT ACTUALLY DEAD BECAUSE SHE'S THERE WITH THE PRESIDENT!!," but its way more "plausible" to believe that one of her sisters is wearing her dress (anyone who has kids, especially kids same sex and similar age, know that they share clothes).




Ah yes, just because some people exercise COMMON SENSE and apply that to information given to them, makes them "asleep in denial." Heard that before too...in fact been down this road many times in the past over the 9/11 conspiracies.

And this is proving to be quite similar in many regards...a tragedy happens, confusion and disbelief is the result since its difficult to process said tragedy, so we naturally want an explanation. We want to know why these things happen. So then you end up with "internet detectives" who gather news reports, pictures and interviews (all of which online mind you), that were done by the media, and they begin to try and discover inconsistencies, coincidence and conspiracy.

Dont get me wrong, im naturally a skeptic, and a healthy does of skepticism and willingness to question everything is good. However, this is NOT a case of skepticism, because Conspiracy Theorists have their OWN agenda, their own commentary on what THEY think happened, and anything that "debunks" or calls into question THEIR theories is systematically dismissed. Thats not what skeptics do. Skeptics question everything, so if a TRUE skeptic doubts media story of what happened and then are presented with videos/pictures like you presented, their FIRST inclination is to be skeptical of THAT as well.

But, its easier to play Devil's Advocate and try to follow the logic of what is more "plausible," so lets try that out:

Lets say that it never happened, and it was all some kind of government fabrication/cover-up, what have you. As a skeptic, these questions would pop into mind:

1.What is the possible reason for including the name of the school in a movie that was obviously going to be a blockbuster seen by millions?
2.If Emile Parker wasnt killed, then why would they include her taking a picture with the president, a picture they know would have been seen by millions of people due to the fact it includes our President as well as family of Newtown victims?
3.And if it was her in that picture, WHY have her wear the SAME dress as in a picture previously released to the media?
4.Who is supposed to be benefiting from this supposed cover-up/fabrication? It sure isnt the president, it happened AFTER the election, and it has only galvanized the pro-gun people against both him AND the government.
5.The victims are children. Why would anyone base a conspiracy on the ability of CHILDREN to keep their mouths shut and not say anything?

Yes, i get the appeal of playing internet detective and discovering "evidence" of a plot more sinister then what actually happened. We ultimately are all small cogs in a very big machine, so things like this give us an excuse to believe that we are capable of understanding how the machine works, that we are able to see through the fog of what we are shown and see the so called "truth," the man behind the curtain so to speak. Unfortunately, when you try to apply logic and common sense to such narratives, at best...they simply fall apart because they do not make much sense at all, and at worse, it is an insult to the families of these tragedies.

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I don't personally believe in any conspiracy theory. This was a 20 year old with asperger's probably still with the emotional maturity of a 6 year old. His motive? Maybe he was harassed and picked on when he was 6, maybe he was jealous of his mother spending more time with those kids. When the folks divorced in 2009 i believe that was the starting point of his downward spiral. I have asperger's myself and when the parents split it can be very hard. In spite of his academic achievement he was a social maladjust like I was. I only found it when I was 35 and am now seeing what it was I was lacking, like reading non-verbal cues and such. This kid needed a boatload of therapy he never got with his mom simply giving him his basic needs like food and shelter but probably a lack of affection or unable to teach him how to make friends and make it in the world. To do what he did he had to have accumulated a ton of rage over time and finally decided to take it out on those he felt were responsible for his ills while taking his own life ina sense of personal justice. Scary stuff but fortuantely 99.99% of aspergers wouldn't do what he did, but one is too many. Like rabies it needs to have some control to prevent events like this from occuring.

As for the Batman reference by no means did Chris Nolan ever predict the SH shootings through his film, I just remember seeing the movie in St-Louis 2 days after the aurora shooting and I believe that was just a premonition unbeknownst to anyone that something was going to happen in a place called sandy hook. no way anyone could have ever predicted it but in some small way the movie did.

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Originally Posted by deuvl

I don't personally believe in any conspiracy theory. This was a 20 year old with asperger's probably still with the emotional maturity of a 6 year old. His motive? Maybe he was harassed and picked on when he was 6, maybe he was jealous of his mother spending more time with those kids. When the folks divorced in 2009 i believe that was the starting point of his downward spiral. I have asperger's myself and when the parents split it can be very hard. In spite of his academic achievement he was a social maladjust like I was. I only found it when I was 35 and am now seeing what it was I was lacking, like reading non-verbal cues and such. This kid needed a boatload of therapy he never got with his mom simply giving him his basic needs like food and shelter but probably a lack of affection or unable to teach him how to make friends and make it in the world. To do what he did he had to have accumulated a ton of rage over time and finally decided to take it out on those he felt were responsible for his ills while taking his own life ina sense of personal justice. Scary stuff but fortuantely 99.99% of aspergers wouldn't do what he did, but one is too many. Like rabies it needs to have some control to prevent events like this from occuring.

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Its difficult to pin down an exact reason for why people like him or other mass murderers do what they do. In the end, its a variety of factors, and its close to impossible to predict that anyone would go that far. (the only thing i find troubling about it is that they are all males. For whatever reason, women are not tempted to become mass murderers for whatever reason. Heck, statistics show that its a very low probability that women will become murderers of any sort...it does happen, but nowhere near the amount that it does with males).

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As for the Batman reference by no means did Chris Nolan ever predict the SH shootings through his film, I just remember seeing the movie in St-Louis 2 days after the aurora shooting and I believe that was just a premonition unbeknownst to anyone that something was going to happen in a place called sandy hook. no way anyone could have ever predicted it but in some small way the movie did.

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And this is where i disagree. You see premonition, i simply see coincidence. And a shaky one that. To be honest, as someone who had lived in NYC for 8 years, when i first heard the news and heard "Sandy Hook Elementary," my initial thought was that it took place in Sandy Hook NJ. But, in the end...it merely was just a coincidence, and these things tend to happen. You can find "odd" coincidences between any 2 significant events in history, that doesnt mean they are correlated or a premonition of anything.

We can agree to disagree on this one. I agree it Is a coincidence in the sense of 'wow would you look at that? Huh...' but I believe that events occur in a pre-determined manner so it's easy to look back and say 'dang, batman knew it all along'.

And as for his asperger's no one wished to make a link with his violent behavior because it was the first case of a diagnosed person committing such an act but I believe there were previous cases committed by un diagnosed individuals like the Dawson College shooting here in Montreal in 2006. I had it 35 years before I found out what it was so it's very plausible. My mom was confirmed at 68 and she's in denial over it so it's definitely in the genes.

But i'm also the world's stupidest man so take that into consideration. also the executive director of the aspergers rights group is a Packers fan so maybe i'm just bitter. :)

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Originally Posted by deuvl

We can agree to disagree on this one. I agree it Is a coincidence in the sense of 'wow would you look at that? Huh...' but I believe that events occur in a pre-determined manner so it's easy to look back and say 'dang, batman knew it all along'.

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Not for me it isnt. In fact, "dang, batman knew it all along" is probably the last thing on a very long list of things i would possibly say over this tragedy.

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Originally Posted by deuvl

We can agree to disagree on this one. I agree it Is a coincidence in the sense of 'wow would you look at that? Huh...' but I believe that events occur in a pre-determined manner so it's easy to look back and say 'dang, batman knew it all along'.

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I'm quick to look behind the scenes, because many times, it has been the elite that pull the strings behind the scenes.

In 1871 Albert Pike envisioned three World Wars to be followed by an unparalleled economic disaster. Pike's plans have come to fruition, shockingly 'on target'. Who is Pike and perhaps more importantly who backed Pike?
Albert Pike's letter to Mazzini, dated August 15, 1871:

• "The First World War must be brought about in order to permit the Illuminati to overthrow the power of the Czars in Russia and of making that country a fortress of atheistic Communism. The divergences caused by the "agentur" (agents) of the Illuminati between the British and Germanic Empires will be used to foment this war. At the end of the war, Communism will be built and used in order to destroy the other governments and in order to weaken the religions."
• "The Second World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences between the Fascists and the political Zionists. This war must be brought about so that Nazism is destroyed and that the political Zionism be strong enough to institute a sovereign state of Israel in Palestine. During the Second World War, International Communism must become strong enough in order to balance Christendom, which would be then restrained and held in check until the time when we would need it for the final social cataclysm."
• "The Third World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences caused by the "agentur" of the "Illuminati" between the political Zionists and the leaders of Islamic World. The war must be conducted in such a way that Islam (the Moslem Arabic World) and political Zionism (the State of Israel) mutually destroy each other. Meanwhile the other nations, once more divided on this issue will be constrained to fight to the point of complete physical, moral, spiritual and economical exhaustion…We shall unleash the Nihilists and the atheists, and we shall provoke a formidable social cataclysm which in all its horror will show clearly to the nations the effect of absolute atheism, origin of savagery and of the most bloody turmoil. Then everywhere, the citizens, obliged to defend themselves against the world minority of revolutionaries, will exterminate those destroyers of civilization, and the multitude, disillusioned with Christianity, whose deistic spirits will from that moment be without compass or direction, anxious for an ideal, but without knowing where to render its adoration, will receive the true light through the universal manifestation of the pure doctrine of Lucifer, brought finally out in the public view. This manifestation will result from the general reactionary movement which will follow the destruction of Christianity and atheism, both conquered and exterminated at the same time."

Here's a lecture based on the groups I'm talking about. Professor Veith backs everything he says with quotes and references

In this lecture, Veith addresses the Pike letter at about the 8:40 mark

must say, out of the dozen or so forums I browse, this is the last place I'd expect to see Albert Pike references.

Be careful --- twenty years from now, this kinda post will get you charged with a thought crime.

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Originally Posted by TheBaschnagelnator

• "The Second World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences between the Fascists and the political Zionists. This war must be brought about so that Nazism is destroyed and that the political Zionism be strong enough to institute a sovereign state of Israel in Palestine. During the Second World War, International Communism must become strong enough in order to balance Christendom, which would be then restrained and held in check until the time when we would need it for the final social cataclysm."

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That right there should throw up red flags...that somebody not only predicted the wars, but the ACTUAL NAME of the Nazi Party, which wasnt even formed until 50 years after these supposed letters were written. If you believe that the "elites" set it all up, then i guess they also convinced the Vienna Art College to reject the application of one unknown artist, Adolf Hitler. Those devious bastards.

In any case, these "letters" have been debunked as a hoax

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Originally Posted by Jimmors

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That right there should throw up red flags...that somebody not only predicted the wars, but the ACTUAL NAME of the Nazi Party, which wasnt even formed until 50 years after these supposed letters were written. If you believe that the "elites" set it all up, then i guess they also convinced the Vienna Art College to reject the application of one unknown artist, Adolf Hitler. Those devious bastards.

In any case, these "letters" have been debunked as a hoax

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Those who argue that the terms Nazism and Zionism were not known in 1871 should remember that the Illuminati
invented both these movements. In addition, Communism as an ideology, and as a coined phrase, originates in France during the Revolution. In 1785, Restif coined the phrase four years before revolution broke out. Restif and Babeuf, in turn, were influenced by Rousseau - as was the most famous conspirator of them all, Adam Weishaupt.

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Originally Posted by hoth

must say, out of the dozen or so forums I browse, this is the last place I'd expect to see Albert Pike references.

Be careful --- twenty years from now, this kinda post will get you charged with a thought crime.

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Yeah, I know. I had to slap my own face to make sure that I saw myself actually going this deep on dabears-freakin-.com

In a moment, I will be returning to the Tebow discussion lol