Connecticut school shooting: Reports say more than 20 dead

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Originally Posted by Wolfman

Will have to agree to disagree...I believe there is too much ingrained denial (I will never get caught/that would never happen to me), not to mention outright ignorance and apathy, in our society for such a post facto punishment to be a very effective deterrent...

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My stigma with this is that every law that is in place today is very innefectively managed. Any oversight and regulation is by far underfunded and very innefective. Therefore laws that are in place as far as oversight goes are not effective, while laws that in place that result in punishment if caught are more effective. Again, I'm not looking for perfection, I'm only looking for what is the most effective.

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Of course the 800 pound gorilla in the room is the Constitution and 2nd Amendment...taxing the execution of constitutional right is general frowned upon by the counts....ban or limiting certain weapons is far less constitutional problematic and outright "taxing" an individual's right to keep and bear arms...

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I don't know about this. Every state has laws in place, with fees associated, that require one to register firearms. While the courts seem to frown upon outright banishments (see the overturn of Wash. D.C.'s gun ban), they do not frown much upon oversight, regulation, and a cost associated with exercising such rights.

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I would love to hear more on that...that is where the really interesting debate lays imo...what is the intent of the 2nd Amendment, what was it originally, what is it today? I believe we have to far too long completely ignored the entire Amendment in favor of merely the second half it... the well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state always seems to be forgotten and over looked as if it means nothing...individuals standing up to a tyrannical government outside of a well regulated militia (and only governments regulate)was never the intend of the 2nd...I think we have long forgotten that....

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This is the most interesting part, I agree, and I can discuss it with much interest all day long. I don't know that any state holds it's own militia, although I think it should... .which should hold the same rights to arms as the federal government (tanks, missiles, etc.). Maybe we're talking about two different things here, but I agree that this part is the most crucial to our existence and freedoms.

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Originally Posted by blinddeafmute

I don't know about this. Every state has laws in place, with fees associated, that require one to register firearms. While the courts seem to frown upon outright banishments (see the overturn of Wash. D.C.'s gun ban), they do not frown much upon oversight, regulation, and a cost associated with exercising such rights.

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I believe this is mostly incorrect...most states do not require any documentation, forms, licenses or fees to own a firearm...there is a federal form (4473) that must be submitted for all sales in the US though a registered gun dealer...that form is free to submit and the responsibility and liability to submit that form is on the gun dealer, not the gun owner...however, many gun dealers charge the buyer a "handling fee" to submit said form...

all handguns are fully registered with state police and I believe atf. IDK where the background check goes to either fbi or atf not sure. Rifles arent fully registered though unless it is under 26 inches total length(just have to pass back ground check). Like my sig 556 when the stock is folded is actually considered a pistol not a rifle and can be carried with a ccw but also required it to be registered like my hand guns. But with my other rifles cause of length didnt need that

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Originally Posted by motownbear

all handguns are fully registered with state police and I believe atf. IDK where the background check goes to either fbi or atf not sure. Rifles arent fully registered though unless it is under 26 inches total length(just have to pass back ground check). Like my sig 556 when the stock is folded is actually considered a pistol not a rifle and can be carried with a ccw but also required it to be registered like my hand guns. But with my other rifles cause of length didnt need that

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Were you being charged a fee, by the government, to registered these weapons? What state are you in, if I can ask?

Im in MI. When I buy local I guess the price is in the price of the product. From actually a set fee when I take the slip into the police department they just take documentation no money exchanges hands(I take documentation only when its a handgun nothing is required with a rifle). When I buy online the firearm is sent to someone who has a federal firearm license FFL(of my choice). He charges me 25 dollars a firearm for the transfer. IDK what the 25 charge entails whether it is straight profit or a fee for reporting things etc. But I pay that fee whether its a rifle or handgun

also if you dont have a ccw the process to purchase a firearm changes. You first have to go to the police station to get a permission slip to buy(which expires in like ten days) then you take that to gun shop purchase firearm. IDK if that is 100% accurate how its done cause I have never bought a handgun when I didnt have a ccw

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Originally Posted by motownbear

Im in MI. When I buy local I guess the price is in the price of the product. From actually a set fee when I take the slip into the police department they just take documentation no money exchanges hands(I take documentation only when its a handgun nothing is required with a rifle). When I buy online the firearm is sent to someone who has a federal firearm license FFL(of my choice). He charges me 25 dollars a firearm for the transfer. IDK what the 25 charge entails whether it is straight profit or a fee for reporting things etc. But I pay that fee whether its a rifle or handgun

also if you dont have a ccw the process to purchase a firearm changes. You first have to go to the police station to get a permission slip to buy(which expires in like ten days) then you take that to gun shop purchase firearm. IDK if that is 100% accurate how its done cause I have never bought a handgun when I didnt have a ccw

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I am pretty sure that $25 is straight profit for the dealer...my dad's a registered gun dealer...and that's what he charges to handle the paper work, the 4473 form...like I say, it cost nothing to submit that form, it's simply a "handling fee" on the part of the dealer...

But anywho, I stand by my statement that there are no government fees or "gun taxes" involved in owning most kinds of firearms, in most states...

At least in Michigan there is no such thing just the normal tax when purchasing an item like ur buying some taxable thing from wal mart and even that when u buy online u can skip the tax lol but I can only speak for mi. U would really need to see strict areas if their is a tax like Cali il or dc. I know a city in Illinois has the ammo tax

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Originally Posted by motownbear

At least in Michigan there is no such thing just the normal tax when purchasing an item like ur buying some taxable thing from wal mart and even that when u buy online u can skip the tax lol but I can only speak for mi. U would really need to see strict areas if their is a tax like Cali il or dc. I know a city in Illinois has the ammo tax

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Actually I don't believe you do...that "ammo tax" proposal was dropped back in Oct...that is if that "city" you are talking about is Chicago...although the Cook County board did approve a $25 "gun tax" shortly thereafter...

NRA makes me wanna vomit. Blames Hollywood movies and violent computergames.. Fun thing is that we in Europe get to see the same movies and play the same computer games but we don't have that many shootings at school? Perhaps it's because there is a total ban on weapons?
If there were no weapons at all then there would be no shooting with guns..

Someone kills a lot of people with a gun? Let's get more guns! How about give kids shooting lesson and let them carry weapons at the age of 6?
I remember last time we had an argument on DaBears about guns someone said that guns should not be banned because then people couldn't carry one and shoot the bad guy in case there would be another massacre. I'm sorry but were there anyone that did kill that this Lazaon-something with their own gun? Have there ever been a case where a random guy have shoot a guy that was killing innocent random people?
Yes people do kill people but people use guns to kill people and guns are easier to kill with than a knife.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nm7Z_wvylvo


now if it was a gun free zone he couldnt have stopped the shooter

there are plenty of examples just liberal media doesnt report it.