Thread: Tues bear practice and injury notes

Originally Posted by dabears54

No mankins too many hurdles..

Upon Further Review: Offensive line fix?


LAKE FOREST, Ill. – The Bears are up against a tight Tuesday deadline to swing what’s sure to be a complicated deal if they plan to consummate a trade for New England Patriots guard Logan Mankins, who could potentially upgrade the club’s leaky offensive line.

Given the 23 sacks taken by quarterback Jay Cutler in four-and-a-half games, which put him on pace for more than 80 this season, the Bears seriously need solutions.

They’re just not likely to find them by Tuesday’s trade deadline, according to multiple personnel executives around the league, who identified some of the potential snags of a trade while questioning whether Mankins is actually worth what Chicago would have to give up to acquire him.

“What you’ve got to think about is [the fact] guards don’t carry that kind of value,” said one NFC North personnel executive. “You’ve also got to consider you’ve got a quarterback up there in New England [Tom Brady] that gets the ball out quickly. So is he a guy who makes an offensive line much better? Will he still be good on another o-line? Are you willing to pay that price for a guard? New England is not.”

It’s no secret the Bears kicked around the idea of making a move for Mankins ever since the restricted free-agent guard balked at signing New England’s $3.26 million tender. Otherwise, general manager Jerry Angelo wouldn’t be doing his due diligence when it comes to making sure Chicago fields a roster featuring the best talent available.

ESPN NFL insider Adam Schefter floated the possibility of the Bears acquiring Mankins in exchange for defensive tackle Tommie Harris and a fourth-round pick, writing that “Chicago gets the help on the offensive line it needs, and New England gets [the] help on the defensive line it needs along with the fourth-round pick it gave up for wide receiver Deion Branch.”

It’s believed the Patriots are looking to receive a first-round pick as compensation in a potential trade, and that Mankins seeks a deal averaging more than $8 million per season. Mankins’ agent, Frank Bauer, revealed to ESPNBoston.com that New England’s final offer to the guard is 20 percent lower than the deal signed by Saints’ guard Jahri Evans, a Pro Bowler, who signed a seven-year contract in May worth $56.7 million, which averages out to a little more than $8 million.

Based on that, the Bears would have to pay Mankins left-tackle money.

“You’ve got to make a deal before you trade for him, otherwise he’s gone at the end of the year,” the NFC North executive said. “It doesn’t make sense to give up something for him and not have a deal. Then, you’re talking about paying tackle money to a guard. You can’t overpay a guard.”

An AFC personnel executive agreed, saying that actually getting a long-term deal done with Mankins would be the Bears’ biggest challenge.

So Mankins’ contractual demands certainly decrease Chicago’s chances of landing him. It’s also well-documented that Angelo has indicated he’s exhausted the funds allotted by ownership to upgrade the talent. In structuring any potential new deal with Mankins, the Bears would need to strongly consider the effect the contract could have on the salary cap once a new collective bargaining agreement is implemented, another NFC executive said.

Without knowing what the new cap could be, the Bears run the risk of signing Mankins to a deal that could potentially force them to unload salaries/talent in the future to stay within the confines of that new cap. The club will already have several hard choices to make in that arena next offseason, considering players such as Olin Kreutz, Anthony Adams, Devin Aromashodu, Desmond Clark, Corey Graham, Caleb Hanie, Brian Iwuh, Patrick Mannelly, Danieal Manning, Nick Roach, Pisa Tinoisamoa and Matt Toeaina are playing in the final years of their deals.

Additionally, draft compensation is an issue. Each of the personnel executives believed a third-round pick (and possibility an additional conditional pick) would be the minimum needed for the Bears to acquire Mankins. Still, that’s probably not the route the club needs to go considering its past, which is rife with it essentially throwing away draft picks in trades. The Bears gave away two first-round picks and a third-rounder to acquire Cutler and a second-round pick for defensive end Gaines Adams.

Prior to that, the Bears traded away three additional picks.

Based on comments made by coach Lovie Smith, the Bears aren’t seeking outside help to fix the offensive line’s myriad problems. Smith thinks the club may have found the best combination to protect Cutler during Sunday’s loss to Seattle.

So help from Mankins likely isn’t on the way.

“I’m hoping we have [found the right combination on the line],” Smith said. “Believe me, each week we haven’t said, ‘New week, let’s try a different combination.’ Injuries have forced us to do it a little bit, but we’re getting guys back healthy right now. So hopefully, we can go with this same line again this week, and just that in itself -- the guys playing together a little more -- will help.”

Isnt that what everyone said no more money left? Bet they can find some money for another defensive player though.

and you know what before the season started there were some cheapy deals available that we didnt go for. We could have used a guard bandaid if they werent willing to have a long term solution

Originally Posted by motownbear

sometimes ego gets in the way like when Harris refused help from Sapp. Look where Harris is now........................... Warner is one of the class acts in the league. I cant believe Leinart didnt learn anything from this guy. Warner knows how it is to come up from being a nothing.

That could definitely be it. They may not even know it, if they feel like working with their coaches gives them a better chance to know what the gameplan is, then finding time to work with a retired guy may not necessarily be a priority.

So we fans sit there and say, hey, why not??? But it really is not on the radar of the player and they are focused on what they are doing with the team, the coaches etc....

Originally Posted by motownbear

sometimes ego gets in the way like when Harris refused help from Sapp. Look where Harris is now........................... Warner is one of the class acts in the league. I cant believe Leinart didnt learn anything from this guy. Warner knows how it is to come up from being a nothing.

And sometimes the 'star player" a really lousy teacher, and not saying Warner is or isn't,, just saying sometimes its not becuase a player doesn't want to learn from another- just the 'teacher" isn't really one

player view:

ChrisHarrisNFL No one intentionally tries to hit illegally (helmet to helmet) its just part of the game. The reason u see a lot of guys getting hurt now as

ChrisHarrisNFL Opposed to back n the day is bc its a diff breed of athletes now. Guys r a lot stronger and faster which creates higher impact hits.

ChrisHarrisNFL And impact these guys are hitting with is unbelievable and of course dangerous. Its a damn Gladiator mentality. #sorry

ChrisHarrisNFL I feel the NFL is singling out defensive players. What about the running backs who are running towards me then lower their heads at contact

ChrisHarrisNFL Think about the Brandon Jacobs n Marion Barbers n Adrien Petersons. They r physical runners who lower their heads n try to run u over to get

ChrisHarrisNFL That extra yard or first down. That's inviting helmet to helmet contact. There is no way u can get from it in this league ....point blank

Originally Posted by GrizzlyBear91

Damn right #46

it's a dangerous sport... you go into it KNOWING it's a dangerous sport. what's the saying?? if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen???

if your not willing to sacrafice your body, then go play golf.

Its an interesting Concept and like Harris's view on the rb's that lower the helmet..

to me, got no problem with the "blatant" and "intent to injure" head/head ala what merriweather did where basically head butted the WR.. that is bush league... and IMO the desean jackson hit , really hard, BUT LEGAL as he lead with shoulder( even though head also got hit, no "intention to injure" or the jim leanord hit was legal... The 'gray area' hits a little tougher, like the james harrison hit on the RB where did go helmet to helmet,, but can't tell if intentional.. that will always be the Controversial one

The OTHER PROBLEM no one is bring up, is if you outlaw all hitting up top, will Force the Players to go for the legs alot more often, and You will then see some real horrific knee/leg injuries as the hits to legs increase and dont think anyone wants to see that

Originally Posted by dabears54

Its an interesting Concept and like Harris's view on the rb's that lower the helmet..

to me, got no problem with the "blatant" and "intent to injure" head/head ala what merriweather did where basically head butted the WR.. that is bush league... and IMO the desean jackson hit , really hard, BUT LEGAL as he lead with shoulder( even though head also got hit, no "intention to injure" or the jim leanord hit was legal... The 'gray area' hits a little tougher, like the james harrison hit on the RB where did go helmet to helmet,, but can't tell if intentional.. that will always be the Controversial one

The OTHER PROBLEM no one is bring up, is if you outlaw all hitting up top, will Force the Players to go for the legs alot more often, and You will then see some real horrific knee/leg injuries as the hits to legs increase and dont think anyone wants to see that

the problem is, as C.Harris points out, that the conversation is about D players hitting and not about the blocks, like Bennett on the Kicker or the RB lowering his head. We are taking away D from the game and making it an offensive players game. Not sure that is good.

The way we protect QB's is shameless. Remember Brady faking a slide against Url in '06?? Bet the next time a QB takes a huge hit when REALLY sliding, the NFL fines Url or another LB and the player points to plays like that. Look at the rook in AZ that tried to cut back against the Aints.... he lowered his head and dove forward. The D has to react to that possibility. You cannot just hold the D player accountable, you have to look at all of it.

Originally Posted by jnastorer

the problem is, as C.Harris points out, that the conversation is about D players hitting and not about the blocks, like Bennett on the Kicker or the RB lowering his head. We are taking away D from the game and making it an offensive players game. Not sure that is good.

The way we protect QB's is shameless. Remember Brady faking a slide against Url in '06?? Bet the next time a QB takes a huge hit when REALLY sliding, the NFL fines Url or another LB and the player points to plays like that. Look at the rook in AZ that tried to cut back against the Aints.... he lowered his head and dove forward. The D has to react to that possibility. You cannot just hold the D player accountable, you have to look at all of it.

The Bennett hit totally legal. it was shoulder pad/shoulder pad, that the Punter never saw it coming on him.. and why looked bad, but nothing wrong or has league said anything about it.. People just like seeing punters getting jacked.

Agree 100% about too much protection to the Qb's.. just saying can still allow the hitting, just eliminate the "flagrant helmet to helmet" shots that are dirty( ala merriweather) .. the other's leave alone and "at worst" fines not suspensions