Thread: Kreutz is an anchor not to be cut loose

I'm not even opposed to Olin Kruetz coming back next season. He isn't horrible, but he isn't great either. If we can get him a serviceable set of linemen around him, like a Logan Mankins at G or if, and this concerns me because of his being injured apparently the past couple of seasons, Robert Gallery and move him to RT where he started his career at, I think we'll be fine with Kruetz as the C for at least one more year.

I am concerned about keeping Frank Omiyale another season at LT. I saw him screw up a blocking assignment on a blitz from the Packers (I believe it was the Charles Woodson blitz, where by, too, Manumaleuna screwed up the pass protection in the backfield as well). We need to do something about that. I think that we could draft someone relatively high in the draft (2nd Round, maybe?) to replace him. This needs to be as much of a youth movement as it is a movement toward winning a Super Bowl.

Kreutz, though barely able to retain a starting position, should be kept one more year. If you upgrade the guards around him, he could play part of another year as a starter, until his replacement is more league ready (that is if we draft a C). If we get a C in f/a, then I don't think he will be retained.

Great Bear, one of my faves, but done.

Originally Posted by dabears54

exactly sould, we need a new center- the only question is do you ALSO keep kreutz around as a back up/mentor.. and depending on the price, keeping him around for another year may not be a bad idea. I do not get why some are so opposed to keep a vet to be a mentor oh well

I think you're absolutely correct. Though I'm not convinced that Olin Kruetz is totally fried as a player, I think he would fare better if surrounded by more dynamic linemen (Mankins, maybe that Gallery fellow out in Oakland if he is healthy enough and the Bears think he is worth the risk at a reasonable price). I also agree that Kruetz would be a wonderful tool in a "coaching" mode, serving as a teacher/mentor to a rookie center, such as Mike Pouncey. I think that he would be a wonderful pick in the draft, along with signing a couple of free agents.

Kreutz should be replaced if possible, but he is a good leader, better than what we have at guard, and should benefit from having some decent guards next to him. Priority #1 should be upgrading at Guard, spend some money there. I doubt there'll be money for a FA centre after that, but maybe if they draft Wisniewski in the 1st he can start at C.

If I were Jerry Angelo I'd do this:
1. Sign a GOOD veteran guard (Logan Mankins, Robert Gallery, Dahl, Nicks)
2. Draft an interior lineman with either the 1st round pick (If Pouncey or Wisniewski are available, take one. If not go BPA), or 2nd round pick.

By upgrading at Guard you're also going to upgrade at Tackle - Chris Williams can shift back outside where he's best and you can get either Omiyale or Webb off the field. Williams ain't no Joe Thomas but I'd take him any day over Omiyale or Webb.

I think Logan Mankins is an unrestricted FA after this season - if that's the case the Bears should offer him big money and a long term contract. The Patriots screwed him around this season similar to what the Chargers did with VJax, refusing to offer him a long term deal. Mankins requested a trade and sat out for much of the season but came back and started the last 9 games for the Pats so that his stock won't drop next season.

Mankins is a pro-bowl guard and has been part of a great offensive line. Having an experienced, all-pro guy like that next to Chris Williams will really help Chris out a lot too, and whoever replaces Olin will benefit greatly. He's still young at only 28 years old - the Bears should offer him a 4-5 year contract and pay him big money.

They need to stop wasting money on scrubs like Taylor, Manumaleuna and Omiyale and pay the big money to the big players, the starters.

Perfect offseason for the Bears:
- Sign Logan Mankins to a 5-year deal.
- Draft Mike Pouncey or Wisniewski in the 1st round. Start them at guard but let him learn from Kreutz how to play centre in the NFL.
- Draft a pass-rushing DT in either the 1st or 2nd round. This is what the defence has been missing since Tommie Harris' demise, it will free Peppers up much more and also make our CBs look better.
- Draft another interior O-lineman to develop in the 3rd-4th round (get rid of 7th round pick Lance Louis and UDFA Edwin Williams. This guy would sit and learn for a year and come into the lineup once Kreutz retires)
- Take a chance on a big WR that could be an end-zone thread in the latter rounds

If the offseason went that way your starting OL would be this:
LT: Chris Williams (he is a first round pick, he has the potential to be great but has bearly had a chance to show it at LT)
LG: Logan Mankins (pro-bowl guard, fantastic pass protector. Will be a great mentor to Williams)
C: Olin Kreutz (old, washed up, but the Bears can't afford to replace him with a FA yet. He is a great leader and has the experience to pick up an blitzes)
RG: Pouncey/Wisniewski (Pouncey is a natural guard but Kreutz may be able to teach him a thing or 2 about playing centre if he needs to take over the following season. Wisniewski is destined to be a C in the NFL but could also learn from Kreutz and is probably a better option at Guard than Roberto Garza).
RT: Webb/Omiyale (Neither are great players but they are good enough to play RT)

I think that'd be a HUGE upgrade. Cutler would have a helluva lot more time to throw, and Forte could actually run inbetween the tackles. Jay and Matt are both doing well with the terrible OL this season, imagine the damage they could do with these guys. And Williams, Mankins, Pouncey and Webb are young and could all be starters for the next 4 years, continuing to improve and have great chemistry. The offense is young so this frees us up to draft defense the following seasons to replace the aging LBs and DL.

If the Bears are going to win a Super Bowl I think the window is wide open the next 2 seasons while Peppers, Urlacher, Briggs are still preforming at a high level. If the defense can stay at the same level it's been at for the next 2 seasons, the young offense is going get better and better and the sky is the limit.

Originally Posted by Dagan81

Garza couldn't possibly be as good as Olin Kruetz at C because he's never really played that position on the line before, or hasn't done so very often. Kruetz is serviceable, but not great, and I think like most of the rest of do, that his best days are behind him. Better to sign a FA C or draft someone to take his place and let Kruetz ease them into the role than to simply allow Garza, who isn't blocking much better, take over the most complex position on the offensive line.

id love to see angelo man up and take a center early.

Id love to get a center even half as good as that Pittsburgh rookie center

Originally Posted by nerrad

id love to see angelo man up and take a center early.

Id love to get a center even half as good as that Pittsburgh rookie center

I'm really torn as to whether or not I want to see the Bears draft a WR in the first round or go after a C, but Mike Pouncey is looking awfully good for me right now in terms of players to go after in the first round. I think that they'll go after Logan Mankins as a G, and maybe someone who can fill in the need at RT (Gallery?). That would leave room to move Chris Williams back to LT, which is his natural position.

There are always quality interior linemen available in the 2nd/3rd/4th rounds....but Angelo spends those picks on defensive linemen or DBs. Eg the last 2 drafts....

2009:
3rd round - DE Jarron Gilbert (plays for Jets now)
3rd round - WR Juaquin Iglesias (plays for Vikes now)
4th round - DE Henry Melton (situational pass rusher)
4th round - CB DJ Moore (was great value here and has developed into a great nickel-back)
5th round - OLB Marcus Freeman (cut before the season started)
5th round - WR Johnny Knox (great pick)
6th round - S Al Afalava (started rookie season then cut and plays for Jags)
7th round - G Lance Louis (very athletic but very raw...)

OK so after that draft, and terrible play by the OL what does Jerry go out and do the next season?
3rd round - S Major Wright (good pick, good value, fills a need)
4th round - DE Wooton (injury history, good value if he can stay healthy....but this is after drafting 2 defensive ends last year)
5th round - CB Joshua Moore (after drafting a slow undersized CB named Moore in the 4th round last year, he goes and does the same thing)
6th round - QB Dan Lefevour (needs to develop but good pick, until he was cut to bring in "proven verteran backup" Todd Collins uggggh)
7th round - RT Jamarcus Webb (very raw physical freak, good pick, like last season he leaves the OL til the final round)

Very similar drafts.....why he keeps drafting backup CBs and DL rather than trying to develop an OL I don't understand....Looking back at Angelo's drafts the only one I like is 2008 when he selected Chris Williams, Matt Forte, and Earl Bennett....but even in that draft he neglects the interior OL and in the 3rd, 4th, 5th selects DT, S, CB and leaves it until the 7th to pick a guard who I doubt is even in the NFL anymore. Why not get a god damn OL in the 3rd or 4th round for once and get a DL or DB in the 7th...

Every other draft is terrible, and it seems he just gets lucky landing a great player in the 3rd-4th round every couple years.

He is terrible at evaluating the needs/weaknesses of the team, and also at evaluating talent.

Originally Posted by Dagan81

I'm really torn as to whether or not I want to see the Bears draft a WR in the first round or go after a C, but Mike Pouncey is looking awfully good for me right now in terms of players to go after in the first round. I think that they'll go after Logan Mankins as a G, and maybe someone who can fill in the need at RT (Gallery?). That would leave room to move Chris Williams back to LT, which is his natural position.

I'm beginning to doubt more and more that Pouncey will be there for the Bears. His brother went at #16 to the Steelers last year and he's not far off his level. If the Bears can get Mankins though there'll be less need to get a 1st-round quality C or G. A 2nd rounder would do and would probably still be an upgrade over Garza. Then WRs Michael Floyd or Jon Baldwin, or DT Drake Nevis could be good value in the 1st anyway.

Gallery has been Left guard for years and is a beast there. One of the best run-blockers in the league but struggles in pass protection at guard. He ain't gonna move to RT. I don't think the Bears will be able to afford to spend money on 2 FA OL anyway, especially if they go after Mankins.