Im on board with you about Nevis but Paea would keep me thinking. And I still would probably try to trade out of the first rather then making a reach.
Originally Posted by WindyCity
I think we are more desperate for proven talent then developing guys on offense. We have the solid vet foundation on defense to bring a rookie into the system. On offense we have bodies........dead beat bodies lol......very unhealthy for a rook to start out in and we dont have the years to wait on them. I guess it all comes down to how confident you are in Tice who even he couldnt light a fire under Williams ass. We have to keep pace with Green Bay who is ahead of us right now
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I think Carimi would be the ideal guy to put down as our first round pick if we had our druthers. That being said, I did make mention the other day to one of the new members on this board that I wouldn't mind at all seeing the Bears go after Mike Pouncey in the first round, followed by Stephen Paea later on in the second round. I'm beginning to think that it's entirely possible to go after someone like Tyson Clabo in free agency to play OT, and to switch Chris Williams, who has proven to be versatile, back to left tackle. We need another guard because Omiyale clearly can't handle the position. Williams is needed in other places where his strengths lie.
My ideal starting offensive line, with realistic respects paid to the NFL Draft at the end of April, would be as follows:
LT: Chris Williams
LG: Mike Pouncey
C: Olin Kruetz (I think that his play will pick up with better athletes around him.)
RG: Stephen Wisniewski (This is provided that he will go in the third round.)
RT: Tyson Clabo
We have to address at least one of those positions in free agency, and hopefully do two in the draft. In terms of the defensive line, I would trade up to an earlier pick in the second round and do my damnedest to go after Stephen Paea. I think he has real potential provided that his torn meniscus injury he sustained in the Senior Bowl will not hinder his future progress.
No doubt the Pouncey is the best interior lineman and I wouldn't be opposed to him but Carimi is still the better of the two in round one if we get a shot at him. I don't think Paea would last anywhere near as long as the late second round. He's late first or early second at the worst. He and Liuget are a notch below Fairley and Darius but either will be an immediate starter for who ever picks them.
Originally Posted by Dagan81
The major issue here is that we absolutely need a 1st round pick who can become an immediate starter and all three or these guys, Carimi, Pouncey, Liuget, and Paea have that capability. The absolute worst thing we can do is to pick someone who's a project and can't start. To me that includes guys like Solder, Sherrod, and/or Wilkerson.
The other problem is see is that your proposed starting Oline for 2011 destroys any continuity that Tice established last season. None of these guys has even played these postions with each other before. In addition to have two rookies playing OG and even though they're playing alongside vets that's still one hell of a risk you're taking. Williams and Pouncey together on the left side is virtually the same as playing rookies at each spot and I don't like the thought of that combo protecting Cutler's blindside.
Last edited by soulman; 03-20-2011 at 11:57 AM.
Paul, my thinking was this: this offensive line is not going to have a lot of holdovers from last season. You know as well as I do that it was horrific at times, while toward the end of the season it picked up steam. I think that the offensive line, as we currently know it, is destined to be totally scrapped and from there, completely reconstructed. I definitely do not believe that Frank Omiyale will be in the grand design, but now that I think about it, I would not be shocked to see Roberto Garza back as the RG alongside his tag team partner in crime, Olin Kruetz. We definitely have to address this need with at least one pick in the draft (a change from when I said two originally), and I think that our most likely draft pick will be Mike Pouncey. I am not at all afraid of that draft pick, nor am I afraid of neglecting the defensive line a little in order to address an even greater need (offensive line). Pouncey will be a solid player if his brother's playing abilities are any indicator, and I feel like moving Chris Williams back to LT would be a wise decision. So, while I have changed my mind on some things, my position still remains that we totally dismantle this line and start from scratch next year, with Tice working with better talent.
Originally Posted by soulman
Free agency is going to be interesting, Paul. We need another OLman from there. Most likely, we'll have to settle for either signing Tyson Clabo or, if the Falcons wind up getting him back, drafting one of the dreaded "don't touch 'ems" in the first or second round. I won't cry over Solder or Sherrod, but I would rather have Carimi if he is available at the 29th pick. If that is indeed the case, that Carimi can be had at the 29th pick, then by all means draft him. However, I am not sure that J'Marcus Webb won't continue to improve from the end of last season, when he made some significant progress that somewhat bordered on a breakthrough. In that instance, I would weigh the odds and ends of signing a free agent OT and settle for drafting Pouncey. I really don't understand why people are so dead set against drafting him when we are potentially sitting in decent position with at least one OT position if he is moved back to LT from LG (Williams).
Last edited by Dagan81; 03-23-2011 at 06:36 PM.
I think that Chris Williams at LT is a recipe for disaster. I rewatched the first game of the season against Detroit and he was not good.
We can argue about this again, but if was a good LT then he would have been playing their regardless of how big a mess LG was.
One of the questions I ask Dags is just how much better some of these guy will get from the cohesion that comes from playing next to one another for a whole season. They made some pretty good strides under Tice after he finally got the best five out there regardless of position. I don't think were as bad off as some may think but we do need improvement now!
With the way JA talks about it I think he sees value in the first three rounds for both lines. It all depends on which they feel they need more, OT, OG or DT, and who is still on their board when the picks come. I wouldn't rule out them trading up a little for just the right guy and I also wouldn't rule out them trading down if all their first round guys are gone.
Because of the delay in FA and the Bears confessed desire to fill some immediate holes there we really don't know which way they'll go and you can be sure based on past history that JA will not tip his hand. It should be an interesting month of posting coming up.
Our offense was 30th ranked so it was pretty f-up lol. This was the worst performing Martz offense of all time. The crazy part is other then oline wtf did 49ers have better then us? They had the better TE but like history has shown us Martz didnt feature the position here or there. I think our wrs were better then what Martz had there. Our qb is definitly better then what he was working with there. Oline is where we got killed. RB I probably give Gore the slight edge but just a slight. Where the hell did we go wrong? We need to get this offense on par with the defense but we have been singing this same song since well before I was born
Originally Posted by soulman
I will agree with you that the tight end situation favors the 49ers, but I will disagree on running back. I think that overall, Matt Forte is the more dynamic back all around. Frank Gore is a work horse, but I do not think he has averaged more than approximately 1,100 rushing yards per season since his break out year of 2005. Forte has only played three years, and averages close to 1,050 per season during that stretch if I had to estimate. His receiving totals range from 471-547 yards per season. I think Forte is going to be a superstar in this league, and may well wind up the better rushing back if this line gets taken care of.
Originally Posted by motownbear
You are dead on regarding the quarterback situation for the two teams. Jay Cutler will probably have a better season next year than he had this year if the line is better, while the 49ers are still trying to figure out from week-to-week who exactly will be starting since Alex Smith and Troy Smith both suck ass (and Troy Smith was so good at Ohio State...too bad this didn't translate out to success in the pros).
If I was ranking the OLmen in this draft based on what is in my heart I would go with the following rankings.
1. Gabe Carimi [Wisconsin] 6'7" 320lbs.
The big physical nasty player that can come in at LT or RT and provide some attitude and physicality to the OL. He might not have the athletic ability of Tryon Smith or the technique of Costanzo, but he is an OLmen.
2. Mike Pouncey [Florida] 6'5" 303lbs.
Big, athletic and versatile Pouncey would provide felxibility along the interior OL. Pouncey is a guaranteed starter from Day 1.
3. Derek Sherrod [Mississippi State] 6'5" 320lbs.
Outside of the ultra raw Tryon Smith, I have some doubts about the ability of the OTs in this class to hold down the LT position. Sherrod has the athletic ability, arm length and feet to play LT and simply needs technique work under Tice to become a very good pass blocker.
4. Marcus Cannon [TCU] 6'5" 350lbs.
B.J Raji [6'2" 340lbs], Kong Suh [6'4" 310lbs] and Kevin Williams [6'5" 311lbs] make up the DTs in the NFC North. They are big, strong, talented and physical and to counter that the Bears cannot continue to role out the interior OL that they have and hope to hold up. Cannon is a monstrous man with huge athletic upside and simply needs to be coached up to reach what I think is Pro Bowl attention at OG.
5. Nate Solder [Colorado] 6'8" 319lbs.
He makes my list simply based on the fact that he has incredible upside to play LT and we have a great OL coach in Mike Tice. Solder has major technique issues and bad tape, but like Cannon you cannot teach what he is. This pick may not pay immediate dividends, but it could be huge down the road.
I would be happy with any of those picks. We have one of the very best teachers at the offensive line position in the league in Mike Tice, and I think he can really be influential in the development of these players.