Thread: Bears' Toub: New kickoff rules have 'devalued

Originally Posted by soulman

Do you still maintain that the players shouldn't be questioning owners motives, honesty, and fair dealing even after things like this? Big KO returns provide a competitive advantage to teams like the Bears who have made them an integral part of their game by drafting players like Hester, Manning, and Knox with an eye toward their return skills. Taking that away levels the playing field for the "have nots" and I don't think this is about anything else but that.

If they could document their injury claims they would have plain and simple, but they can't. They're exactly like politicians who manueveur to see that nothing comes out about them that doesn't support whatever they claim to be the truth. Not what the truth actually is.

LOL not everything needs to be tied back to the CBA arguments soul.

And why does the league want to help the "have not'?.. not sure buy any conspricacy there, sorry .

Just think more a PC move about injuries and protecting players, in something that doesnt matter for many and costs the league nothing to do and implement, but can point to when safety is brought up( not saying agree with it, just that is what will happen). more lazy than any conspricacy, imo. Just saying wish they would document and show the injuries, good or bad

Originally Posted by IHATETHEBEARS

Yes, it penalizes teams like the Bears right now. But in a few years that disadvantage (or advantage to teams with bad return games) will be gone. And everything will be equal again.

IHTB, how would you like a rule that somehow handicapped Aaron Rodgers ability to scramble effectively? Let's say that he has to remain within a 3 yard square box directly behind center. No scrambling or rolling out. With that Oline of yours it would be a disaster right?

Enacting rules that penalize teams for taking advantage of what the former rule provides for are pretty shitty any way you look at it. If you absolutely have to do something about it then create the rule but delay it's implementation for a couple of years so that teams can adjust.

I don't in anyway agree with your take on this but because of your prejudice I do understand it.

Originally Posted by dabears54

LOL not everything needs to be tied back to the CBA arguments soul.

And why does the league want to help the "have not'?.. not sure buy any conspricacy there, sorry .

Just think more a PC move about injuries and protecting players, in something that doesnt matter for many and costs the league nothing to do and implement, but can point to when safety is brought up( not saying agree with it, just that is what will happen). more lazy than any conspricacy, imo. Just saying wish they would document and show the injuries, good or bad

Touche'

LOL, couldn't resist slipping that in there. It was like one of those "where were you on the night of August 14th" things that PA's throw into prosecutions every so often. Or at least they did on Perry Mason.

I wasn't exactly touting a conspiracy. To me it's more of a calculated move by the NFL Competition Comittee who just happened to latch on to the injury thing as an excuse to do it. They knew it couldn't be questioned very effectively as long as they hid behind that reason.

Like you say, if it is all about reducing injuries then provide some documentation that proves it. But they can't so they simply use their "Golden Rule" fall back position, works everytime.

Originally Posted by IHATETHEBEARS

You get me wrong. I hate the rule change too. I think it sucks. My only point was that the only generation that's going to have a hard time living with it is the current one. But in five years, no one's really going to care. It will be an accepted thing, and they'll all be used to it.

And remember, while it may look like it's penalizing teams like the Bears, it's also helping teams that don't have good return games right now. It's just a League-wide change. It's not singling out teams. The rule applies to all.

That was my point. Teams who have considerable investments in their return game like the Bears or the Jets don't deserve to be penalized because they're more successful at it than others who haven't made that same investment. It doesn't just appear that way. It is that way. The negative affect it will have is very real and it will come very swiftly, not in a few years.

It also may not appear that they're singling out any team but in effect they are. This change came about through the competition committee (not the injury committee) and lacking any documentary evidence to the contrary I say this is about rebalancing what some may feels is an unfair advantage. They haven't produced one shred of evidence that this will reduce injuries. It's all just a theory.

Contrary to what you believe I don't think it will still be a rule in 5 years. I think after one or at most two seasons they'll go back to the old spot at the 30 yard line because they find the change is taking excitement away from the game.

Similar to the other example I gave. Would it be ok with you if forward passes were limited to no more than 20 yards down field because every team doesn't have a QB who can throw any deeper? Maybe they should find one who can just as teams with a poor return game should invest in top notch return men and not look to the playing field being leveled for them.

I'd say there are far more injuries to both offensive and defensive players on a pass rush so should we just eliminate sacks all togther and have the QB's wear little red flags around their waists? You can't go to make a tackle around the RB's knees? It must be thigh high or higher? LOL

I know I'm exaggerating but to me the principal is much the same. I just don't buy into this injury crap that's all.

Originally Posted by dabears54

right after you list all of these investing "tons of draft picks just for special teams"

Why avoid what is asked?.. never mind know why..

Corey Graham
Kellen Davis
Brian Iwuh
Rod Wilson
Nick Roach
Garrett Wolfe
Danieal Manning
Israel Idonije
Robbie Gould
Zack Bowman
Earl Bennett
Devin Hester
Henry Melton
Major Wright
Matt Toeaina
Lance Louis
Josh Moore
Corey Wootton
Johnny Knox

Now list me all of the starters.

Originally Posted by 4th and 26

Robbie Gould

Wasnt drafted by Bears.

Originally Posted by 4th and 26

Corey Graham
Kellen Davis
Brian Iwuh
Rod Wilson
Nick Roach
Garrett Wolfe
Danieal Manning
Israel Idonije
Robbie Gould
Zack Bowman
Earl Bennett
Devin Hester
Henry Melton
Major Wright
Matt Toeaina
Lance Louis
Josh Moore
Corey Wootton
Johnny Knox

Now list me all of the starters.

Are you talking about others who aren't on this list or what guys on this list are starters or at least more than a ST only kind of guy.

Originally Posted by soulman

Are you talking about others who aren't on this list or what guys on this list are starters or at least more than a ST only kind of guy.

DB54 cried about me not answering his question so I posted the list of special teamers that are either back ups and spend more time on special teams vs starting games. Some players listed have started a few games but they are not full time starters.