Thread: 10 Best Oline & Dline Prospects for the Bears

Originally Posted by lklrlolnlilklsox

Connor hasn't been a starter his entire career until this past one where he was out for half a season. Calais and Mario are now beasts, but went nowhere near where Mayock said he struggled early.

I'll just say it now, drafting Gilbert, even with our second pick, would be a mistake. There are just too many better players in this draft and (over)drafting for need is a horrible strategy.

Agreed.

The tough part is of all the OLmen that I have seen if I had to rank my top guys in term of kick slide and redirection skills my list would look like this. But they all have so many question marks.

To me with an OLmen you have to start with feet.

I have never seen Tyron Smith.

1. Derek Sherrod
2. James Carpenter, this guy can really move his feet and redirect and is smooth back to the corner.
3. Nate Solder

Originally Posted by WindyCity

Agreed.

The tough part is of all the OLmen that I have seen if I had to rank my top guys in term of kick slide and redirection skills my list would look like this. But they all have so many question marks.

To me with an OLmen you have to start with feet.

I have never seen Tyron Smith.

1. Derek Sherrod
2. James Carpenter, this guy can really move his feet and redirect and is smooth back to the corner.
3. Nate Solder

Feet-wise, I haven't seen typewriters like Solder's in any of the others. His footwork has occasional technical issues, but just footspeed, he has everyone beat by a mile. Smith may have the best balance of any of the firs round OL, and owes the bulk of that to the fact that he can keep his feet under him at any pace. Sherrod has quicker feet than Costanzo, but worse footwork technique, so that's a close draw for me. I really like Carpenter the more I see him. His tape against Ole Miss is outstanding.

Originally Posted by lklrlolnlilklsox

Feet-wise, I haven't seen typewriters like Solder's in any of the others. His footwork has occasional technical issues, but just footspeed, he has everyone beat by a mile. Smith may have the best balance of any of the firs round OL, and owes the bulk of that to the fact that he can keep his feet under him at any pace. Sherrod has quicker feet than Costanzo, but worse footwork technique, so that's a close draw for me. I really like Carpenter the more I see him. His tape against Ole Miss is outstanding.

This is what I keep coming around to with Carpenter he moves well and moves his feet well and he redirects well, he reminds me of Sherrod with the way he moves.

I would like to see Carpenter get his head out of his pass blocks and punch more on the inside, but he might be an option in the 2nd round that could play LT.

Costanzo's footwork is almost perfect, but I do not see the loose hips to redirect. Costanzo is almost robotic in his movement.

Sherrod looks like a basketball player playing defense, which is where you start when teaching young OLmen how to mirror.

1. DT
2. OT James Carpenter

Originally Posted by WindyCity

This is what I keep coming around to with Carpenter he moves well and moves his feet well and he redirects well, he reminds me of Sherrod with the way he moves.

I would like to see Carpenter get his head out of his pass blocks and punch more on the inside, but he might be an option in the 2nd round that could play LT.

Costanzo's footwork is almost perfect, but I do not see the loose hips to redirect. Costanzo is almost robotic in his movement.

Sherrod looks like a basketball player playing defense, which is where you start when teaching young OLmen how to mirror.

1. DT
2. OT James Carpenter

Carpenter might be a fair pick at the end of two but not the best pick IMO. If you're really looking for some 2nd round OT to fall in love with look closer at Ijalana. With Carpenter you've got a finesse style pass blocker who weak in the running game. Sounds a lot like OMG doesn't it? Ijalana is a better athlete and more effective both in pass and run blocking. He's initially projected at OG but has the potential to become an NFL LT although maybe not an immediate starter.

The main reason for my interest in him is his flexibility. Much like Carimi or Sherrod he can play both OT and OG. I'd bring him in to compete with Williams at LT with loser going to LG. If later on Ijalana proves to be the better LT of the two you can easily move him out to LT and CWill back to LG. They almost become interchangeable after a year or two.

Here's an NFP summary of both: http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/...epartment.html

Here's NFL Draft Scout on both: http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings...2011&genpos=OG
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings...2011&genpos=OT

Here's FF Toolbox.com on both: http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/p...ospect_id=2528
http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/p...ospect_id=2560

You may have other sites to reference. I chose these pretty much at random. But I think the consensus is that Ijalana would be a much better 2nd round pick than either Gilbert or Carpenter.

Originally Posted by soulman

Carpenter might be a fair pick at the end of two but not the best pick IMO. If you're really looking for some 2nd round OT to fall in love with look closer at Ijalana. With Carpenter you've got a finesse style pass blocker who weak in the running game. Sounds a lot like OMG doesn't it? Ijalana is a better athlete and more effective both in pass and run blocking. He's initially projected at OG but has the potential to become an NFL LT although maybe not an immediate starter.

The main reason for my interest in him is his flexibility. Much like Carimi or Sherrod he can play both OT and OG. I'd bring him in to compete with Williams at LT with loser going to LG. If later on Ijalana proves to be the better LT of the two you can easily move him out to LT and CWill back to LG. They almost become interchangeable after a year or two.

Here's an NFP summary of both: http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/...epartment.html

Here's NFL Draft Scout on both: http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings...2011&genpos=OG
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings...2011&genpos=OT

Here's FF Toolbox.com on both: http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/p...ospect_id=2528
http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/p...ospect_id=2560

You may have other sites to reference. I chose these pretty much at random. But I think the consensus is that Ijalana would be a much better 2nd round pick than either Gilbert or Carpenter.

I'm not in love with Ijalana on the left side by any means. Much like Gilbert, I think he relied on his size/strength combo far too often while losing containment of his body (as in, keeping his feet under his shoulders). The double hernia surgery isn't too fun to look at either. I just think Carpenter is the best athlete with the best tape against the best competition out of that bunch.

Originally Posted by lklrlolnlilklsox

I'm not in love with Ijalana on the left side by any means. Much like Gilbert, I think he relied on his size/strength combo far too often while losing containment of his body (as in, keeping his feet under his shoulders). The double hernia surgery isn't too fun to look at either. I just think Carpenter is the best athlete with the best tape against the best competition out of that bunch.

Didn't know Ijalana had major surgery. When was that? Many of these summaries aren't up to date as of April or even late March. I agree that Carpenter has been up against better competition than Ijilana but he'll be a major liability in the running game. We can't become a one sided running team and still be effective. CWill isn't the greatest run blocker either and having two of them togther struggling with it won't fly IMO.

Surgery aside (and I mean that I don't know when and if he's 100%) I'll disagree with you that Carpenter is the better choice of the two. I think with Carpenter you risk drafting Omiyale v2.0. I'll go with the stronger better athlete and let Tice correct his technique issues. Ijalana seems to have far more upside as well.

Originally Posted by soulman

Didn't know Ijalana had major surgery. When was that? Many of these summaries aren't up to date as of April or even late March. I agree that Carpenter has been up against better competition than Ijilana but he'll be a major liability in the running game. We can't become a one sided running team and still be effective. CWill isn't the greatest run blocker either and having two of them togther struggling with it won't fly IMO.

Surgery aside (and I mean that I don't know when and if he's 100%) I'll disagree with you that Carpenter is the better choice of the two. I think with Carpenter you risk drafting Omiyale v2.0. I'll go with the stronger better athlete and let Tice correct his technique issues. Ijalana seems to have far more upside as well.

He was playing with a double hernia rupture to close out it season and had the surgery shortly after the season.

I don't see these major deficiencies against the run that you do with Carpenter and he's pretty much the exact opposite of OMH. OMH is good in the run game and awful against the pass while Carpenter is very good against the pass and just a tad below average on the ground. Ijalana may be good on the ground, but he's not very athletic, and like it or not, athleticism is a huge part of playing LT these days. You just don't see many poor athletes holding down the position very well. I'll take the LT who can hold up his QBs blind side over the guy who can grind out the run game 100/100 times.

Originally Posted by lklrlolnlilklsox

He was playing with a double hernia rupture to close out it season and had the surgery shortly after the season.

I don't see these major deficiencies against the run that you do with Carpenter and he's pretty much the exact opposite of OMH. OMH is good in the run game and awful against the pass while Carpenter is very good against the pass and just a tad below average on the ground. Ijalana may be good on the ground, but he's not very athletic, and like it or not, athleticism is a huge part of playing LT these days. You just don't see many poor athletes holding down the position very well. I'll take the LT who can hold up his QBs blind side over the guy who can grind out the run game 100/100 times.

Sox unless I'm taking data from poor scouting sites everyone of them crows about Ijalana's athleticism and all indicate that he has the basic tools to move to LT with some coaching. The same sites also put down Carpenter's run blocking abilities and at 300 lbs that seems like a fair read based on size and power.

Link me to other sites that give a different slant on these two because to me everyone can't be right or wrong in the same way.

OMG is still more of a finesse type to me. He may be a fair run blocker but he's no prize and he couldn't run block at all when they had him at OG. He just isn't a power type people mover IMO.