Thread: Bears draft positional analysis: Def. tackles

Originally Posted by thekmann

I like all the guys you are talking about except Austin. I have serious character issues with him and just see another potential Tank Johnson situation with him and I hope the Bears stay away.

thinks its different with austin and understand the connection k-man- and just IMO because of tank, do think if in any evalution of DT's austin for bears specifically loses the 'tiebreakers", and bears will go with the other pick because of the bad publicity and tank situation

and in the "otherside" of the risk of DT's a good article on ESPN"

Defensive linemen: Draft at your own risk


There are high expectations for this defensive line draft class.

San Diego Chargers general manager A.J. Smith says this is the strongest group available in the draft. ESPN draft analyst Todd McShay said that he hasn’t seen such an impressive defensive line group at the combine and in workouts.

That’s why defensive tackles Marcell Dareus of Alabama and Nick Fairley of Auburn both could be top-five picks. Defensive ends Da'Quan Bowers of Clemson and Robert Quinn of North Carolina may not be far behind Dareus and Fairley. The Denver Broncos are studying defensive linemen closely and very well may take Dareus at No. 2.

Even though the talent is high at this position, Denver -- and every other team picking in the top five -- must beware. Taking a defensive lineman with a top-five picks is a major gamble.

Over the past 20 years, 24 defensive linemen have been taken with top-five picks -- with extremely mixed results. For every Julius Peppers (drafted No. 2 in 2002) and Ndamukong Suh (drafted No. 2 in 2010), there are busts like Dewayne Robertson (No. 4, 2003), Courtney Brown (No. 1, 2000) and Steve Emtman (No. 1, 1992).

Even though he likes this group of defensive linemen, McShay acknolwedged earlier in the offseason that the bust rate for defensive linemen is “shockingly high.” Matt Williamson of Scouts Inc. said he thinks defensive line and wide receiver are “neck-and-neck” as the riskiest positions in the first round behind quarterback, which is in a different league when it comes to draft uncertainty.

Williamson thinks one of the reasons many top defensive linemen fail is a sense of entitlement. He said top defensive linemen are rare because of their combination of size, speed and ability. They are pampered from an early age and may not work as hard as other, less-coveted players.

“I think it comes down to them just being very special people/athletes,” Williamson said. “If you notice, a high percentage of the stud DT talent comes from huge colleges. For example: When I was at Pitt, we just couldn't get great DT recruits. There are just so few people in the world with their size that can move like stud DTs need to. They are very coveted and go to massive programs. Even at the college level, they are freakish enough that they often don't have to work extremely hard to be great. When they get to the NFL, that all changes ... and they often don't adapt in terms of professionalism and work ethic.”

Williamson said he believes Dareus will buck the trend and have a strong NFL career and be worthy of a top-five pick. However, he said he has concerns about Bowers and Fairley because they were “one year wonders [who] would disappear at times.”

Studying the history of failure at the position and trying to figure out if this year’s prospects can succeed in the NFL has been one of the Broncos’ toughest tasks. Vice president of football operations John Elway has acknowledged the risk involved in studying defensive linemen.

“... it’s so hard to be able to find guys with that size that have athletic ability,” Elway said. "Whether they’re raw coming out of college or they’re polished coming out of college, people see that athletic ability with the size and the speed. You just can’t find that, it’s very difficult to find those type of athletes that are that big later in the draft. That’s why I think you see so many of those guys with the speed and the size do not go very deep in the draft.”

Perhaps last year signaled a change in the trend. Detroit took Suh at No. 2 and Tampa Bay took Gerald McCoy at No. 3. Suh was brilliant and McCoy was impressive before he was injured. Denver would love to get a player of Suh’s or McCoy’s caliber in the form of Dareus.

The decade before 2010 didn’t produce anyone great other than Peppers, although Mario Williams, who was taken No. 1 in 2006, has become a good player.

The Chiefs took defensive tackle Glenn Dorsey at No. 5 in 2008 and defensive end Tyson Jackson No. 3 in 2009. Dorsey came on strong last season and was a big part of an improved defense after a slow first two seasons. Jackson has shown some flashes, but he has yet to show he was worthy of the top pick. Like Dorsey, St. Louis defensive end Chris Long, taken at No. 2 in 2008, began to make strides in 2010.

Denver can’t afford to wait on production if it takes a defensive lineman with the No. 2 pick. The Broncos were last in the NFL in total defense and points allowed in 2010. Elway has said numerous times that the Broncos have to get this pick right. In a perfect world, the Broncos would take a defensive lineman and begin their resurrection. History, though, shows it’s not that simple.

Initially I thought the Broncos were going to take Fairley. From what I saw of him he looked to be the best penetrator and pass rusher of the bunch. But as time has passed I'm now 99% certain that they'll take Dareus who to me is the safer pick of the two. Fairley may come on like gang busters once he gets it in his head that in the NFL he has to be and every down player but that's the question mark about him.

As for the Bears I'm liking Austin and his both his off field and on field issues less and less the closer the draft gets. With him I don't know whether we get another pre injury and pre big contrat Tommie Harris or the latter day Tommie Harris. If we do take a DT at #29 it probably be Wilkerson because of his flexibility. Here's a guy who can play both DT and DE like a latter day "Danimal".

If we trade down into two and Wilkerson is most likely gone then I'd take Paea before Austin. Relating to what A J Smith points out in this article these two are not your typical top 20 big time college guys. Temple and OSU are not exactly teams who are in the BCS race every year so there's less chance that either of these two are basically pampered underachievers who'll promptly display that side of themselves as soon as they get a big contract.

After Liuget these two should be next on our list.

Originally Posted by soulman

Initially I thought the Broncos were going to take Fairley. From what I saw of him he looked to be the best penetrator and pass rusher of the bunch. But as time has passed I'm now 99% certain that they'll take Dareus who to me is the safer pick of the two. Fairley may come on like gang busters once he gets it in his head that in the NFL he has to be and every down player but that's the question mark about him.

As for the Bears I'm liking Austin and his both his off field and on field issues less and less the closer the draft gets. With him I don't know whether we get another pre injury and pre big contrat Tommie Harris or the latter day Tommie Harris. If we do take a DT at #29 it probably be Wilkerson because of his flexibility. Here's a guy who can play both DT and DE like a latter day "Danimal".

If we trade down into two and Wilkerson is most likely gone then I'd take Paea before Austin. Relating to what A J Smith points out in this article these two are not your typical top 20 big time college guys. Temple and OSU are not exactly teams who are in the BCS race every year so there's less chance that either of these two are basically pampered underachievers who'll promptly display that side of themselves as soon as they get a big contract.

After Liuget these two should be next on our list.

Sounds about right in the order- think autin has more upside than paea,but as you aid that mental side is worrisome, so can see the bears going in a different direction, here hoping either liegut or wilderson do fall to us though

Originally Posted by dabears54

Sounds about right in the order- think autin has more upside than paea,but as you aid that mental side is worrisome, so can see the bears going in a different direction, here hoping either liegut or wilderson do fall to us though

At this point in time I don't see Liuget making it past #20 -#21 and it would cost way too much to trade up to that spot and I don't agree with doing it either. My greatest concern is that Wilkerson won't get past NE who picks right in front of us at #28. He's pretty much the kind of guy they really like and he could be a great addition as a 5t DE in their 3-4.

Now what's interesting is since it would only cost us a 4th (by the draft value chart) or maybe a 3rd next year to trade in front of them, would that be a smarter move then to stay at #29 and possibly have only Sherrod on our board by then? If it was my choice and I could get that trade on favorable terms I'd do it.

I'm still stuck on getting that DT first since I believe we'll have better OT options in two than DT options. The only exception to that may be Nevis. He seems perfect for the role in every other way but his size. Just wish the guy was 2" taller and could carry 15 lbs more with no sweat.

Originally Posted by soulman

At this point in time I don't see Liuget making it past #20 -#21 and it would cost way too much to trade up to that spot and I don't agree with doing it either. My greatest concern is that Wilkerson won't get past NE who picks right in front of us at #28. He's pretty much the kind of guy they really like and he could be a great addition as a 5t DE in their 3-4.

Now what's interesting is since it would only cost us a 4th (by the draft value chart) or maybe a 3rd next year to trade in front of them, would that be a smarter move then to stay at #29 and possibly have only Sherrod on our board by then? If it was my choice and I could get that trade on favorable terms I'd do it.

I'm still stuck on getting that DT first since I believe we'll have better OT options in two than DT options. The only exception to that may be Nevis. He seems perfect for the role in every other way but his size. Just wish the guy was 2" taller and could carry 15 lbs more with no sweat.

On NE really hoping they trade down with one of the teams for a Qb and we avoid that or NE who needs DE more, falls in love with one of the DE's that is still there

Baylor NT Taylor not a good fit

Posted by Bob LeGere on Sun,
ESPN’s Todd McShay has produced an interesting mock draft in which he consulted with one scout from an NFC team and one scout from an AFC team.

There are several interesting picks and quite a few make a lot of sense – until it gets to the Bears’ pick at No. 29, where the selection is Baylor’s 334-pound nose tackle Phil Taylor. Not only did Taylor transfer to Baylor after being suspended at Penn State after he was charged in an on-campus fight, but he doesn’t fit the Bears’ scheme.

Taylor is more of a two-gap nose tackle and fits best in a 3-4 defense. He is not the kind of athletic, rangy player that functions best in the Bears’ one-gap defense.

Taylor makes a lot more sense for teams like the Jets and Steelers that play 3-4 defenses, and he would make a lot more sense somewhere early or in the middle of Round 2. McShay’s mock also has Mississippi State offensive tackle Derek Sherrod and Baylor guard/tackle Danny Watkins still on the board when the Bears pick, and both players would be tough for the Bears to pass on, considering they fill much bigger needs.

Source refutes report about Phil Taylor's feet says checked out fine

Baylor DT reportedly red-flagged medically Aaron Wilson

Baylor defensive tackle Phil Taylor's feet checked out fine at the NFL scouting combine medical recheck, according to a league source with knowledge of the situation.

The source refuted a CBS Sports report that Taylor has been red-flagged due to having bones growing together in his feet that could cause significant pain for the big defensive lineman.

"No team has an issue with him," the source said.

The source theorized that teams were trying to downgrade the first-round draft prospect's stock in hopes of him falling to them.
"If he was a 190 pound player, it might be different," a source told CBS Sports. "Or, if he was an older player and you were only signing him for a few years, it might be different. But, it is pretty hard to invest a first round pick in a player who you know coming in is being red-flagged by the doctors. This isn't just our team, by the way. Every team gets the MRIs. Every other team is seeing this too."
According to the CBS report, more than one team had an issue with Taylor's feet.

Taylor had eight official visits, including: the New York Jets, Pittsburgh Steelers, Cleveland Browns, Indianapolis Colts, Tennessee Titans, Kansas City Chiefs, San Francisco 49ers and the New Orleans Saints.

Taylor conducted three private workouts with the Browns, Chiefs and an undisclosed AFC playoff team.

Taylor is regarded as a rising prospect on draft boards, especially after the Senior Bowl where he shoved around blockers.
Taylor is a big, strong anchor at 6-foot-3, 334 pounds.

At the scouting combine, he ran the 40-yard dash in 5.09 seconds and bench pressed 225 pounds 31 times.
Taylor recorded 62 tackles, seven for losses and two sacks last season and was named second-team All Big 12.
Taylor transferrred from Penn State after being suspended after a fight at the student union during a fraternity function.
A felony aggravated assault charge was eventually dropped, and Taylor didn't get into any trouble at Baylor and was named to the Big 12 Commissioner's honor roll.

During his first season in Waco, Taylor recorded 25 tackles 2 1/2 for losses, a half-sack, one interception and two blocked kicks.