Need some help learning mechanics of OL/DL

**soulman** · 04-21-2011, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by WindyCity

Izzy was awesome to the younger guys in college. As a freshman we had to have the vets over for dinner if our families lived in town and he refused to use my mom's good towels that she had put out in the bathroom. I will never forget the day the Cleveland Browns scout came to practice and he actually went 100% I do not think anyone touched him.

Another cool story is when he was not allowed into the combine because he was Canadian and was not invited, he stood outside the RCA Dome and handed out highlight tapes and he held his own testing session at a facility near by.

I see Izzy at least once a year when he comes back to Winnipeg for his kids camp, he is very generous and hooks us up with Bears gear and takes as many of us that are there out for lunch.

I played DT and switched to OT, as I was not fast enough to stay on the DL in college and then played mostly RT in the CFL.

My CFL career did not last very long after 2 shoulder operations in 2 months.

Thanks for the comeback Windy and for your viewpoints on Oline play. Always good to get info from one who has played the game since my only real experience was as a PK and ST guy for one year in HS. I guess you're in hog heaven this year what with all of us being able to debate both OT and DT positions and prospects to fill them.

Great to hear that stuff about Izzy and that you and he get a chance to visit from time to time. I've always been a big fan of his and am so glad he's found himself a permanent home at LDE. I've always thought that he was one of the most underrated guys on the team. Well no longer.

Sorry your career in the CFL ended so quickly. You know I read a lot about Olineman incurring shoulder injuries often. Where do those injuries occur and what causes them?

**Dagan81** · 04-21-2011, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by Butka

There could be pages written about o-line technique and what is taught. Windy hit on a lot of points, but he didn't hit them all (I'm sure he ran out of time and wanted to keep it simple)...

Here's other things I watch with pass pro technique...

Knee bend - Proper knee bend will help the lineman keep their balance, help leverage, support their base. If a lineman doesn't bend enough at the knee, they tend to bend at the waist and overextend themselves... again, makes them off balance.

Butt level - Somewhat related to knee bend is hip or butt level. Having a low ass lowers your center of gravity. Also having your butt in proper position will help your leg drive (especially in run blocking). A common technique taught to counter a bull rush from the defender is to sink your ass down low and drive your legs in hopes to cause a stalemate or even drive them back.

Staying Square- In pass pro it's important to stay square to the line of scrimmage until roughly the designed depth of the QB is reached (QB depth concern mostly applies to tackles, but it can apply to others). Staying square ensures you're not giving the rusher an open lane to attack the QB. Once that goal depth is reached, you can turn your body and push the rusher on by, giving that pocket shape. If you want to see an example of someone who is really shitty at this, watch Frank Omiyale vs. an edge rush. I'd say about 50% of the time he goes against an edge rush, he turns his body well before he reaches proper depth. This allows the end to take the corner on him much quicker than he would if Omiyale were square. A common reason linemen don't stay square is because they're simply beaten by quickness, or they don't have enough confidence in their own ability to stay with the rusher on the edge.

(someone wasn't in good position and turned too soon)

Active feet - A lineman will want to keep his feet chopping no matter what. Having your feet 'in concrete' is a good way to get juked or lose your balance. It's also a good way to lose a physical battle. You'll often see guys stop their feet on contact. Again, that makes you susceptible to various moves and is a good way to get pushed back into the QB. Usually lazy feet is more a product of conditioning than discipline. Though you'll see young guys do it when they're not tired... Webb would do this at times last season.

Quick set - meaning you want to see a lineman snap out of their stance and into proper pass pro position quickly. The quicker a lineman gets set, the better off they'll be. That's why in obvious pass situations, you'll often see some of the linemen not even bother putting their hand on the ground. Then they're pretty much in this set position from the start.

(closest I could find to a pass pro set in an image search)

I'm out of time. There's actually quite a bit more that could be talked about.

Keep in mind that the technique isn't necessarily the same across the board for all linemen, mainly the differences are in pass pro. Guards and centers have a little different approach in pass pro than tackles, etc.

Wow. I didn't realize there was so much to learn about proper technique. I guess that with everything, the higher the level, the more complex it becomes. I'm eager for the new football season to get started so that I can hopefully dissect some of the Bears' offensive line's technique. Thanks so much, Butka. If ever you want to share more with me, I'll be very interested to listen to what you have to say.

**WindyCity** · 04-21-2011, 11:26 AM

Butka brings up some great points about knee bend and quick set, which many coaches call startling out of your stance.

Run Blocking is far less complex then pass blocking.

Explosive First Step: You want to get your 1st step up and down quickly and you usually do not want to move forward with it but give up a little ground to load your weight.

Contact Step: On your second step you are making contact and driving off the first step.

Head and Hands: You try for 3 points of contact head, without burrying your head and looking down, and both hands. Once your hands hit as long as they are inside you grab onto the defender.

Arm Bend: never strauighten your arms keep a slight bend like the end of a bicep curl as this allows the energy of the defender to go down your back and into your legs. Straight arms will only allow you to engage your shoulders.

Wide Base Bent Knees: Keep your feet wide so you can generate the most power and absorb the most force coming back at you.

Lift and Run: Once you are locked on roll your hips forward, like you are having sexy times, and try and lift the defender off the ground and start moving him backwards.

**WindyCity** · 04-21-2011, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by soulman

Thanks for the comeback Windy and for your viewpoints on Oline play. Always good to get info from one who has played the game since my only real experience was as a PK and ST guy for one year in HS. I guess you're in hog heaven this year what with all of us being able to debate both OT and DT positions and prospects to fill them.

Great to hear that stuff about Izzy and that you and he get a chance to visit from time to time. I've always been a big fan of his and am so glad he's found himself a permanent home at LDE. I've always thought that he was one of the most underrated guys on the team. Well no longer.

Sorry your career in the CFL ended so quickly. You know I read a lot about Olineman incurring shoulder injuries often. Where do those injuries occur and what causes them?

They mostly happen in pass protection when you have a hold of someone and the 6'6" 260lbs musceled up DE switch direction and your shoulder absorbs all of that force.

Mine was on a cut block that I landed on my elbow guy ended up on my back and my rotator cuff was gone.

I think this conversation highlights were my love and obsession for OL talent comes from. Watching the OL last year was tough for me and I wanted to cry with some of the technique that I saw.

**soulman** · 04-21-2011, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by Dagan81

That's awesome! The closest I have ever come to knowing an NFL player is Doug Atkins. My dad grew up knowing him quite well. Doug used to come to my great-great aunt's tavern in Knoxville during the offseason and he would always share stories of his time in the pros, particularly for his disapproval with George Halas.

Did you start in the CFL? The fact that you had a pro football career is amazing, no matter what level you are at. I should take the time to learn more about CFL football, because past a couple of teams, I know next to zilch as to who plays in what city and where.

Doug Atkins in a gin mill???????? And I'd always heard that he didn't drink............much!

Didn't the "Old Man" give him beer and burger money as a signing bonus once ?

Man I love watching videos of that guy play. We should be so lucky as to find a DT this year who disrupt and offense the way he did.

**soulman** · 04-21-2011, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by WindyCity

I only started a couple of games and spent most of my time as a backup and short yardage TE and NT. I was a little like Solder, and this kills my point about him a little, but I switched from the DL and I was always a little behind where I should have been. I had 4 coaching changes in 2 years and was lost in the shuffle.

The coolest part of the entire thing was some of the coaches that I worked with. Marc Trestman in Montreal is a scary genius who literally knows what everyone is doing on every play and Bob Wiley in Winnipeg who coached the Bears OL under Jauron.

If you ever want to meet a guy who loves Olin Kreutz talk to Bob Wiley, we watched a ton of 1999-2001 Bears film with Aaron Gibson at 420lbs. playing RT.

Aaron Gibson, LOL, now there's blast from the past. Another Wisconsin Badger who came out of college at around 360-380lb's as I remember and had scouts drooling over him because of his size and athleticism. He was supposed to be all that and bag of chips in the NFL but unfortunately I think he ate too many bags of chips and developed a weight control problem as you point out here.

Kid was kind of like this years Marcus Cannon. I guess rememberances of a guy like Gibson is why I don't favor "fat boy" lineman. They may have a few very productive years early in their careers but when weight control becomes difficult for them, and just like "The Fridge" it usually does, they fade into the sunset pretty quickly.

**Dagan81** · 04-21-2011, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by soulman

Aaron Gibson, LOL, now there's blast from the past. Another Wisconsin Badger who came out of college at around 360-380lb's as I remember and had scouts drooling over him because of his size and athleticism. He was supposed to be all that and bag of chips in the NFL but unfortunately I think he ate too many bags of chips and developed a weight control problem as you point out here.

Kid was kind of like this years Marcus Cannon. I guess rememberances of a guy like Gibson is why I don't favor "fat boy" lineman. They may have a few very productive years early in their careers but when weight control becomes difficult for them, and just like "The Fridge" it usually does, they fade into the sunset pretty quickly.

I know there was some high school offensive linemen locally who weighed around 400 lbs. He was All-State, but I have no idea how the kid could move. All I know is, I wouldn't want to be the pep squeak, and by pep squeak I'm talking someone my size around 6'3" and 280 lbs, to get him mad at me.

**WindyCity** · 04-21-2011, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by soulman

Aaron Gibson, LOL, now there's blast from the past. Another Wisconsin Badger who came out of college at around 360-380lb's as I remember and had scouts drooling over him because of his size and athleticism. He was supposed to be all that and bag of chips in the NFL but unfortunately I think he ate too many bags of chips and developed a weight control problem as you point out here.

Kid was kind of like this years Marcus Cannon. I guess rememberances of a guy like Gibson is why I don't favor "fat boy" lineman. They may have a few very productive years early in their careers but when weight control becomes difficult for them, and just like "The Fridge" it usually does, they fade into the sunset pretty quickly.

That is my fear with Cannon as well, but I think his weight loss during the offseason and how he carries it are what make me feel a bit better about the situation.

I have been trying to do more digging into the weight thing with Cannon and I found out that he did get heavy in college, but at the same times was a leader in the weight room and the offseason program so who knows.

He is not in the Andre Smith mold where they make no effort to be in shape and they do not carry the weight very well.

Can Gabe Carimi just fall to us so we can end the debate.

**WindyCity** · 04-21-2011, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by Dagan81

I know there was some high school offensive linemen locally who weighed around 400 lbs. He was All-State, but I have no idea how the kid could move. All I know is, I wouldn't want to be the pep squeak, and by pep squeak I'm talking someone my size around 6'3" and 280 lbs, to get him mad at me.

Weight is tough to gage with OLmen and how much is too much.

Some guys like Cannon move really well and carry 350lbs like others carry 300lbs. But as Soul mentioned at a certain point it is too much weight and you cannot move anymore.

I do not hear a lot about weight control with Cannon, which is encouraging, but he needs to stay in the 340-350lbs range to be at his best. Sometimes guys, like Shawn Andrews, who have huge weight problems in College actaully lose weight in the pros when they are in better workout and diet situations. Andrews was north of 400lbs. at Arkansas and came to the combine at 6'4" 366lbs., but his weight problems did not surface in the NFL as much as his depression.

The weight is Cannon's risk as strength is Costanzo's and feet are Carimi's

What is positive is that I see more articles comparing Cannon to Carl Nicks and less comparing him to Andre Smith.

**dabears54** · 04-21-2011, 11:54 AM

BTW windy an update on Izzy.. he's now learning french to go into politics back in manitoba when finsihes his career in football, he's real serious about it, and think he would be awesome in it.. the stuff he's doen trhough his charity alsready shows this. Its alsways good to see someone not only better themselves on the field, but prepare and be ready for the next stage in his life when football is done..

And remember him with the Videotapes outside the combine, and thought how "ballsy" and dedicted he was when did it..

Thread: Need some help learning mechanics of OL/DL

LinkBack

Thread Tools

Posting Permissions