Thread: Does Martz still have too much power?

Originally Posted by Henry Burris

Kevin Seifert

Chicago Sun Times

Granted, with the way our o-line played last year, we HAD to have 3 QBs on the staff, as we DID go through 2 qbs in 2 different games, but only one of those was due to injury. As we all also know, Martz had to be reigned in in the early to mid part of the season due to the playing style leaving Cutler at great risk for harm, so if this is true, WHY is he giving so much personnel decisions as far as the draft goes, if only on a 5th round pick on a QB?

To me, it seems, we need a qb for the future, as Hanie is gonna end up somewhere else with his talent, and the rookie FA's might not be available for a little while longer. However, investing in a QB in the draft will seem to be just as useless if FA comes and goes and we don't do a major overhaul of the interior of the line, and the fact that we didn't get anyone, if not to compete with Garza, to at least be in line to start next year. That certainly beats a QB that might not be ready for 3-4 years just to be a backup, IMO. Maybe this is a warning sign, maybe it's just "nothing to see here", but if this offense plays like **** next year just like it did this year, I think it's time to either neuter him or cut our losses and see how Tice performs as an OC (why not? Marinelli was a line coach) with Martz' power in the organization.

Can't disagree with the idea of cutting ties with Martz if no real improvement in the offense this year. Never was my first choice to begin with and if he's insulted by his extension offer he may walk anyway. Frankly if he doesn't use Hanie and allow the Bears to keep him as #2 long term I'd ride his ass out of town myself. The Bears need to work out an extension for him this year and keep Enderle in the developmental hopper for another couple of years.

There's nothing wrong and everything right with having a star QB, a solid take charge #2, and a guy working his way up the ranks. We haven't had that kind of a succession around here since McMahon's day. If Martz has a rep for making stars out of guys he's got two to work with.

Originally Posted by soulman

Can't disagree with the idea of cutting ties with Martz if no real improvement in the offense this year. Never was my first choice to begin with and if he's insulted by his extension offer he may walk anyway. Frankly if he doesn't use Hanie and allow the Bears to keep him as #2 long term I'd ride his ass out of town myself. The Bears need to work out an extension for him this year and keep Enderle in the developmental hopper for another couple of years.

There's nothing wrong and everything right with having a star QB, a solid take charge #2, and a guy working his way up the ranks. We haven't had that kind of a succession around here since McMahon's day. If Martz has a rep for making stars out of guys he's got two to work with.

I've said this once before in another thread: Mike Martz is the worst assistant coach on Lovie Smith's staff. It seems to me that he is almost in open defiance of what Lovie wants out of a coach. The fact that Lovie had to rein him in mid-season to avoid the Bears posting a four consecutive sub par year was very telling of that. What he did about the backup quarterback situation in the Carolina game was totally stupid. We could have lost that game if it were for the fact that Lovie did some damage control by bringing in Hanie to relieve Todd Collins after he threw, what, four interceptions against the woeful Panthers? I bet you that we would have shut that team out had Collins not played, because Hanie would have at least managed the offense efficiently enough to get us to score at least another time or two while still managing to kill some clock. Mike Martz was only successful in St. Louis because he had the tools to be a success, not because he was a great coach (else, he would have beaten the Patriots in Super Bowl XXXVI). I think it's way past time to part ways with him and to promote Mike Tice to the offensive coordinators position. At least Tice will advocate a strong ground attack that paves the way for the play action pass rather than opposite tactics that Martz advocates. And besides: Martz's strategies don't bode well in Chicago during the late Fall/early Winter months.

I think we learned last year that getting an established veteran is not always the safe bet.
at the same time we tried to get a developmental guy last year and had to get Tod collins instead... and that was not very good... that was horrible IMO.

With Hanie shoring up the #2 spot we still needed a 3rd string guy. do we roll the dice on another vet who's just gonna eat up a big paychek to hold a clipboard??? or pick up a young guy at a 6th round price tag, and see what he's got??.... we can always cut him if it doesn't work out and what are you really gonna get in the 6th round this year that we can't find in Free Agency???.... yeah we could hvae gotten another project linemen but we already HAVE projects in Williams and Asiata. free Agency has quite a list of guys that could fill needs this year, and be better than our options last year...

this is actualy working out really well for us despite everyones oppinions on the QB pick.

I've said several times I think Hanie is gonna be gone within a few years, and we're gonna need someone who's familiar with the system, but again, I don't see Martz' system working if he's got too much of a say over other coaches in acquiring talent. I'd trust Tice, because he got the line manageable, while doing what is supposed to be a 'never do', in switching up the line, to get it good enough for the playoffs. I'd trust Marinelli because he's been in the Tampa 2 forever, and he's gotta have some idea as to the type of player we need, but Martz has shown that, even in close games, he's gonna want to air it out over and over with inexperienced WR's that can't run great routes. You never hear of Tice or Marinelli needing to have their reins pulled...

Originally Posted by GrizzlyBear91

I think we learned last year that getting an established veteran is not always the safe bet.
at the same time we tried to get a developmental guy last year and had to get Tod collins instead... and that was not very good... that was horrible IMO.

With Hanie shoring up the #2 spot we still needed a 3rd string guy. do we roll the dice on another vet who's just gonna eat up a big paychek to hold a clipboard??? or pick up a young guy at a 6th round price tag, and see what he's got??.... we can always cut him if it doesn't work out and what are you really gonna get in the 6th round this year that we can't find in Free Agency???.... yeah we could hvae gotten another project linemen but we already HAVE projects in Williams and Asiata. free Agency has quite a list of guys that could fill needs this year, and be better than our options last year...

this is actualy working out really well for us despite everyones oppinions on the QB pick.

Exactly, it's not as bad as some believe to have picked a QB project in the 5th rather than Frank Omiyale v2.0. We need three QB's on the team every week and there are few if any reasonably talented vets who want to sit behind Cutler and now behind Hanie as well. I think that JA has made it clear that Martz will not get a vet #2 this year so another rookie QB was a must.

We can't get one as an UDFA, in trade, or off someones practice squad until the lockout is over so there weren't a lot of other choices to take. The draft was it.

Originally Posted by 4th and 26

In anybody has too much power it is Lovie Smith.

Let's try to agree to agree, they both have a little too much say..Be it clock management, challenging plays, going 3 and out because of 7 step drops, etc. Maybe another year with them all working together will work, but Lovie needs a little wall-to-wall with Martz every now and then, apparently. Lovie Smith honestly reminds me of herm edwards' stint with the Jets in a lot of ways, but he's enough good breaks and defensive players to make up for their very similar mistakes...


EDIT: I would say, however, that I really don't think either coach was particularly bad, but I think the difference between them is luck. With a good kick, the Jets could've played the Patriots for the SB, and played them very well that year, so they had a chance. They knew them. If Rashied Davis doesn't catch that pass against the Seahawks, we might not have advanced...