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Thread: Forte is worst among third-down backs

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    Forte is worst among third-down backs


    In a continuation of the recent "Higher Education" series, in which we looked at how rookies would best fit their new teams, we thought it might be interesting to take a look at certain performances and rankings from the 2010 season that go a bit outside the box. With the help of statistics from Football Outsiders, we'll be looking at different metrics that will hopefully illuminate the game in different ways.
    In the second installment, we'll be talking about the 10 least-efficient third-down running backs, based on FO's DVOA (Defense-adjusted Value Over Average) metric. Yesterday, we talked up the 10 best third-down backs in the league, so it's time to give you the names of the backs you'd least want to have carrying the ball in those crucial situations. There are instances when a back's offensive line factors heavily into his third-down inefficiency, and when that's the case to an extreme degree, we'll make that clear.
    FO's efficiency metrics are opponent-adjusted and based on every play in a season. DVOA is one of the two primary stats; DYAR (Defense-adjusted Yards Above Replacement) will be discussed in future installments. The quick way to differentiate the two stats is to think of DVOA as a percentage reflecting value above average on a per-play basis; and DYAR as a point value that indicates the cumulative value over average based on every play.
    When dealing with stats that feature small sample sizes, it's better to use DVOA, because of the per-play dynamic. So, here are the 10 worst backs on third down with a minimum of 15 third-down carries. We've also included the Success Rate of each back, which indicates the percentage of plays in which a back gained the necessary yardage for a first-down conversion on third down. In all cases, we've thrown in the rare fourth-down carries as well.
    As you will see, our primary offender is a problem in every category.
    Matt Forte(notes), Chicago Bears — minus-83.7% DVOA (16 carries, 10 yards, 13% Success Rate)
    Yes, the Bears' offensive line blocked about as well as a box of wet Kleenex in the 2010 season, but that wasn't the entire reason for Forte's third-down debacles. If you back through the years, he's never been a great third-down back — he was about league average in 2008 (2.6% DVOA), fell off a cliff in 2009 (minus-30.6% DVOA), and combined with some truly terrible blocking in 2010 to win the booby prize. This is how bad it got for Forte, and this stat explains his horrible Success Rate: On his seven third-and-1 opportunities in 2010, he converted just one of them and gained a total of minus-1 yards on all seven. That's some pretty historic futility right there.
    Marshawn Lynch(notes), Seattle Seahawks — minus-53.7% DVOA (15 carries, 21 yards, 27% Success Rate)
    Lynch is seen as a bruiser, but watching him on short-yardage run after short-yardage run brings a different kind of player to the fore — he generally needs help to bust out of first contact at the line, which is why he had 11 instances of third-and-1 or third-and-2 last season, and converted just five of them. For the record, Lynch's unforgettable 67-yard touchdown run against the Saints in the wild-card round of the playoffs came on second down, and second down was Lynch's most efficient down in 2010.
    Correll Buckhalter(notes), Denver Broncos — minus-38.8% DVOA (15 carries, 27 yards, 20% Success Rate)
    Another guy thought of a short-yardage specialist, but the numbers don't match up. In 2010, the six-foot, 223-pound Buckhalter converted just two of his 14 third-down opportunities. Of course, what the Broncos were doing handing off to him on third-and 17 against the Jets or third-and-23 against the Ravens is anybody's guess. Yet another reason Josh McDaniels is now in St. Louis, to be sure.
    Fred Jackson(notes), Buffalo Bills — minus-36.2% DVOA (19 carries, 69 yards, 42% Success Rate)
    Jackson was the undrafted player who beat out two first-round picks — the aforementioned Mr. Lynch (who was traded to Seattle) and C.J. Spiller(notes) (who is still finding his way) to become the Bills' bell-cow back. However, Jackson was a primary reason that the Bills ranked 27th in DVOA in third-and-short situations; he converted just five of his nine opportunities from third-and-three and shorter.
    Ronnie Brown(notes), Miami Dolphins — minus-33.6% DVOA (20 carries, 61 yards, 30% Success Rate)You may remember that Miami's Lousaka Polite(notes) was one of the best third-down backs in the league last year, with a special gift for converting third-and-1 situations. Brown couldn't have been more prominent in the other direction, and we're at a loss to explain why Brown got four more third-down carries than did Polite when Brown couldn't do anything on that particular down. It seems at times that certain coaches either don't pay attention to down effectiveness, or know the numbers and ignore their meanings
    Thomas Jones(notes), Kansas City Chiefs — minus-30.9% DVOA (19 carries, 39 yards, 42% Success Rate)
    Referring again to yesterday's article, you may wonder why Jones got 245 total carries to Jamaal Charles'(notes) 230 when Charles was so much more effective on every down. You may also wonder why Jones got more carries than Charles on first down (140 to 108) when Charles was so much more effective there (54.8% DVOA to Jones' minus-4.1%), and why Charles actually got MORE third-down carries (30 to Jones' 19) if Jones wasn't the kind of every-down back deserving of more carries, as the Chiefs' staff sometimes opined. After studying all the angles, parameters, and possibilities, your guess is still as good as ours. Jamaal Charles could be the next Chris Johnson, and the only thing stopping him is his own coaching staff. It makes no sense.

    Steven Jackson, St. Louis Rams — minus-30.7% DVOA (27 carries, 59 yards, 37% Success Rate)
    Jackson's been a stud back on some very bad teams, but there may be some truth to the notion that he's starting to wear down — with a quarterback that finally game defenses something to focus on and an improved offensive line, Jackson put up worse metrics on every down from a 2009 season in which the Rams went 1-15.
    Cedric Benson(notes), Cincinnati Bengals — minus-20.9% DVOA (24 carries, 58 yards, 54% Success Rate)
    Not really a big surprise here; Benson has always been a boom-and-bust back. It just so happened as the Bengals' offense splintered in different directions and nobody seems on the same page, his overall metrics got worse. It will be interesting to see if he can rebound with an offense that does have some more impressive newer moving parts.
    Maurice Jones-Drew(notes), Jacksonville Jaguars — minus-19.0% DVOA (33 carries, 104 yards, 48% Success Rate)
    Of all the names on this list, Pocket Hercules was the real surprise; after all, he's been known as one of the NFL's few legit every-down backs for years. He was effective on first and second down in 2010, which was the exact inverse of 2009, when his best down was third down by far. But in 2008, it was another switchup — negative third-down metrics again. Maybe he's the Bret Saberhagen of third-down running backs, and we just have to wait for the good stuff every other season. 2011 will tell the tale.
    Ahmad Bradshaw(notes), New York Giants — minus-15.3% DVOA (22 carries, 61 yards, 55% Success Rate)
    For all of teammate Brandon Jacobs'(notes) third-down and short-yardage issues in recent years, he actually had a better third-down DVOA than Bradshaw's (minus-14.4%) though he did so on just six carries. Perhaps that's the biggest indictment of Jacobs; that Bradshaw is put in a situation that doesn't suit him best. Bradshaw did put up a solid series of third-down performances in 2009 (36.4% DVOA and a 54% Success Rate), but consistency at that down seems to be a tough order for the G-Men these days.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shu...urn=nfl-wp2576

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    Being dismissive of O-line blocking is a pretty convenient way of laying all the blame on the back which is complete horse manuer . This topic should be about O-lines not the backs.
    What should you call any : Fumble , Hold , Interception , Three and out , or Sack ?

    A " F.H.I.T.S " ? or a J'Marcus ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Horse-shoe View Post
    Being dismissive of O-line blocking is a pretty convenient way of laying all the blame on the back which is complete horse manuer . This topic should be about O-lines not the backs.
    Indeed.

    Ive pointed this out numerous times during the season, and these stats seem to confirm it: alot those negative yards were Forte getting tackled IN THE BACKFIELD, sometimes almost immediately after getting the handoff. Had he simply ran up for no gain, then yes, that is indicative of both poor OL and poor RB skills. But to constantly get hit before even coming NEAR the LoS is indicative of a piss poor OL and/or bad play calling, failure to pickup blitzing defenders, what have you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmors View Post
    Indeed.

    Ive pointed this out numerous times during the season, and these stats seem to confirm it: alot those negative yards were Forte getting tackled IN THE BACKFIELD, sometimes almost immediately after getting the handoff. Had he simply ran up for no gain, then yes, that is indicative of both poor OL and poor RB skills. But to constantly get hit before even coming NEAR the LoS is indicative of a piss poor OL and/or bad play calling, failure to pickup blitzing defenders, what have you.
    But yet, using this same train of thought, people completely ignored this aspect when looking at Taylor. They just said it was him being bad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmors View Post
    Indeed.

    Ive pointed this out numerous times during the season, and these stats seem to confirm it: alot those negative yards were Forte getting tackled IN THE BACKFIELD, sometimes almost immediately after getting the handoff. Had he simply ran up for no gain, then yes, that is indicative of both poor OL and poor RB skills. But to constantly get hit before even coming NEAR the LoS is indicative of a piss poor OL and/or bad play calling, failure to pickup blitzing defenders, what have you.
    The O-line and Martz ought to be embarrassed by this topic. Ah well........ all the more reason to hope that Unga can become an effective 3rd down back. Say the guy has early season success at this. Once D's start keying on him, you cross em up with a Forte sweep, or a quick out pattern to Olsen. Whatever it takes to keep the chains moving, get the D some rest etc...... makes the whole team more effective.
    What should you call any : Fumble , Hold , Interception , Three and out , or Sack ?

    A " F.H.I.T.S " ? or a J'Marcus ?

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    The Rhymenoceros Jimmors's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Benjamin View Post
    But yet, using this same train of thought, people completely ignored this aspect when looking at Taylor. They just said it was him being bad.
    Indeed again.

    Just goes to show why the most important positions in football is the damn LINE (O/D)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmors View Post
    Indeed again.

    Just goes to show why the most important positions in football is the damn LINE (O/D)
    Also goes to show you that fans/media always have a bias towards the players they like

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    IMO another reason we need a good true fullback not a TE playing like he is a FB. Having one guy in the backfield on third down makes it easy for the D to key on him. Using a FB will help pick up blitzs and help open up holes or even help distract the d.
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    For Chester Taylor and Matt Forte to both be bad says something about our shitty guard play on the offensive line, or worse, the entire line. I'd say that you'll be seeing a lot of runs off tackle on Carimi's side of the line this season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmors View Post
    Indeed again.

    Just goes to show why the most important positions in football is the damn LINE (O/D)

    If only Jerry Angleo could figure this out.

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