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Thread: Surrendering Pressure

  1. #21
    Button your face 4th and 26's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagan81 View Post
    [/U][/B][/I]



    Read into the semantics of the highlighted, underlined section of what 4th said. He has criticized Mike Tice before.
    Sorry dags but I was not slamming tice in that post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagan81 View Post
    First of all, Tice brought some semblance of order to the offensive line last year. I watched the game against the New York Giants, and that had to be the worst pass protection as well as run blocking I have ever seen. What we saw come out of the Bills game on through the rest of the season except for the Packers game on January 2 indicated to me that Tice knows what he's doing as far as getting the best five guys he has into position as an offensive line. True, even in the second half of the season, predominantly skewed by the six sacks we gave up in the second Packers game, the line didn't block well, but you can't expect Tice to polish five turds and make them do a complete 180 about face in terms of performance. You are being seriously unrealistic if you think that Tice, who is one of the best offensive line coaches in the NFL, can do that.

    Secondly, let's focus on one player in particular. He worked hard to make J'Marcus Webb at least passable as a blocker. While Webb never did well in pass protection, he treaded water as a run blocker. Webb was Tice's pet project in 2010, and apparently he's so high on him that the Bears are willing to start 2011 with him as their RT; there have even been talks of moving Carimi to RT and swapping over Webb to LT. Personally, I want Webb used as a backup because I don't think he's good enough to play on the line; I want the Bears to sign Tyson Clabo to play RT and thus shore up that end of the line with a Pro Bowler. But back to what I was talking about - Webb was Tice's pet project, and we saw great improvement under Tice's direction as the season went on.

    Third, the reason I want Tice as the offensive coordinator is because I think he had great input on how the offensive was run from the Bills game on through the rest of the season. What we saw after the loss to the Washington Redskins was not vintage Mike Fartz football, but rather a balanced attack that saw the Bears run to set up the pass. This modus operandi worked to perfection in setting the Bears up for a big run at a division title and deep run into the playoffs. Tice was noted for this style of offense up in Minnesota, even talking up the "Randy ratio" to the dismay of Randy Moss and his supporters. Mike Martz's offense is not conducive to be run by the current crop of blockers and receivers that we have, and until we have adequate time to get him the pieces to the puzzle it takes to run his 3:1 pass to run ratio offense, we are going to go through quarterbacks like crazy. Look at it this way: we had what one site I looked at called "a cadaver" as the second-string quarterback in Todd Collins while he had a pretty decent quarterback buried down at the third-string slot in Caleb Hanie. If he can't adapt the strategy AND get the right guys playing at the proper points on the depth chart that it takes for this team to succeed, Fartz doesn't need to be the coach. I guarantee that Tice had a great deal to do with the total restructuring of our offense, and I bet you that had we had him calling the last two games against the Packers, we would have probably won those games.
    Jay cutlers sack total in first half 7 games 28 sacks
    Jay cutlers sack total in first half 8 games 24 sacks

    I don't see much of an improvement.

  • #23
    Yankee Doodle Dandy Dagan81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4th and 26 View Post
    Jay cutlers sack total in first half 7 games 28 sacks
    Jay cutlers sack total in first half 8 games 24 sacks

    I don't see much of an improvement.
    How many sacks TOTAL were in the first half? 32.

    Lastly, did you read my entire post? The third paragraph is the one where I really hit the home run.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Benjamin View Post
    I guess even Cutler helped make our line suck (according to stats, he put himself into pressure)
    Exactly! When he holds the ball too long or when Martz is calling plays that require time to develop and 7 step drops both of those factors put more pressure on the Bears Oline than say Indy's because Manning gets rid of the ball so quickly. As a result people look at these stats and say what a shitty line we have when the data is being skewed by other factors. His whole approach to this is garbage to me. Somethings can be anlayzed far more from watching than from applying the statistical analysis of some college stats nerd.

    How can two of the best teams in the NFL last season rank 31st and 32nd in pass protection? This is a seriously flawed analysis because both teams had to be doing something right in the passing game to get where they got to. He might just as well have analyzed how many grains of sand are in a quart mason jar for all the good this does. It's pretty useless info IMO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagan81 View Post
    How many sacks TOTAL were in the first half? 32.

    Lastly, did you read my entire post? The third paragraph is the one where I really hit the home run.
    I was not counting anything Hanie or Collins had done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4th and 26 View Post
    I was not counting anything Hanie or Collins had done.
    You should :). Had Martz not gone to the stupid seven step drops in the Packer game, we would have only given up about 18 or so sacks in the latter nine games of the seasons. We should take great pains to consider that those first 32 sacks game within the confines of seven games. The 24 came in nine, so there was some marked improvement, though a bit on the minor side that it was.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagan81 View Post
    You should :). Had Martz not gone to the stupid seven step drops in the Packer game, we would have only given up about 18 or so sacks in the latter nine games of the seasons. We should take great pains to consider that those first 32 sacks game within the confines of seven games. The 24 came in nine, so there was some marked improvement, though a bit on the minor side that it was.
    What is Martz suppose to do when he has no OL? We have no running game except vs shitty teams. You saw many times where forte was getting hit in the back field. We sucked on short down situations. Don't kid yourself, our sack total still sucked in the second half of the season. Jay may not have gotten sacked but he still got hit way too many times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagan81 View Post
    You should :). Had Martz not gone to the stupid seven step drops in the Packer game, we would have only given up about 18 or so sacks in the latter nine games of the seasons. We should take great pains to consider that those first 32 sacks game within the confines of seven games. The 24 came in nine, so there was some marked improvement, though a bit on the minor side that it was.
    agreed dagan -yes it did improve, but for some that will never be admitted. Just goes in circles now.

  • #29
    Button your face 4th and 26's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dabears54 View Post
    agreed dagan -yes it did improve, but for some that will never be admitted. Just goes in circles now.

    Some people just need to let things go

  • #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4th and 26 View Post
    Some people just need to let things go
    agree 100%

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