Thread: Morrissey Says; Forte Good But Not Worth Huge Payday...................

Originally Posted by The Benjamin

Okay let me take a step back. But first, Payton is a football deity.

I like Forte, I really do. He should get an extention. AFTER the season. Keep him making the 550K this year.

My real problem is people are talking about Forte as he is a top 5 back in the NFL or the second best back in Bears history. He isn't. In either account. I do not even think Forte is worthy to be considered as a top five in Bears history.

Pay him after the year, but people need to stop hyping him up as much as they are. He is good, but I would stop short of calling him great.

OK, now I'll tackle this part of your post.

Most of us around here AREN'T talking about Matt Forte as a top five back in the NFL so I don't know where you're getting that from. That's an exaggeration on your part and that's all it is. If you go back in collect all of the posts from those who ever said that he was a top five back and list them along with whoever posted them that list is gonna be very small if not non-existent. So........that takes care of that issue.

Now, is Matt Forte one of the top five Bears RB's in history? I guess that depends on whether you mean all the way back to the days of your Great Grandfather and Red Grange or whether we're only dealing with the modern era of the NFL which I would date from the 60's forward to today. That's when the NFL began to have it's games broadcast on TV and therefore what most everyone considers the "modern era". Agreed?

So, beginning with the 60's and Gale Sayers I'd like you to name me five other RB's who've been as productive in their first three years in the NFL as Matt Forte has been. I've been following the Bears for a long time now including the Sayers era and I can only think of three; Sayers himself, the late great Walter Payton, and his replacement Neal Anderson, whom I compare Matt Forte to most favorably. Other than those three I can't think of one other back can you? None of these high draft picks has been his equal; not Rashaan Salaam, nor Curtis Enis, and Anthony Thomas pooped out after two that were only close to Forte's, and surely not Cedric Benson so who else did you have in mind?

Benji the only other Bears RB who might even come close was TJ and he had already been in the league for over three years before he came to the Bears. If you want to count him fine, but that's still only 4 other RB's since Sayers who could come close or better what Matt Forte has done. I'm sorry but you're wrong about this my friend.

Originally Posted by motownbear

Why would anyone be against extending our offensive talent that actually do something on the team?

hell yeah give him the extension now. Im sick of every time it is time to keep an offensive player we end up losing them but for defense we go all in no matter what. We finally have that all purpose back and people want to risk losing him

Exactly. Matt Forte is not as easily replaceable as either certain fans or even the Bears may think. I dare anyone to prove me wrong on that after accepting the fact that since Neal Anderson retired in 1993 we've drafted three RB's in the 1st round (Salaam, Enis, and Benson) and one in the 2nd round (Thomas) and none of them has even come close to being the back that Matt Forte is. Of the Free Agent RB's we've brought in over that time only TJ could be compared to him and we traded him in order to keep Cedric Benson.

There is nothing short of a career ending injury that could convince me that Matt Forte will not go on to be one of the top RB's in the NFL for several more years. I'm not advocate that we shower him with money but we do need to make very good offer for an extension of his current contract through at least 2015 at which time he'll be 29 years of age and probably beginning to decline. Matt Forte is coming into what should be the most productive years of his career and I'd like those years to be spent in a Bears uniform.

Originally Posted by soulman

I think we shouldn't be comparing Matt Forte with Tommie Harris. Harris sustained major knee injuries and was never the same after lazy or not. Tommie would play one or two games a year at the end of the year hard and coast the rest of the time. We have yet to see that attitude out of Matt Forte. Two different players two different situations.

I suggested a deal that would pay Forte a little over $32.5 mil total over 5 years including 2011, so it's a 4 year extension that cover him through age 29. These should be the years when he at his peak. Approximately 50% of the contract is guaranteed. Here's the structure I suggested.

Current: 2011 = $10 mil in SB or combination SB/RB + $1.55 mil salary = $11.55 mil total

Extension:
2012 = $ 2 mil RB + $2 mil salary + $500k other bonuses = $4.5 mil total
2013 = $ 2 mil RB + $3 mil salary + $500k other bonuses = $5.5 mil total
2014 = $ 1 mil RB + $4 mil salary + $500k other bonuses = $5.5 mil total
2015 = $ 0 mil RB + $5 mil salary + $500k other bonuses = $5.5 mil total

If they only guaranteed this year and next all they're on the hook for is $16 mil. The rest must be earned year by year which is also how they structured Peppers deal to protect themselves against injury or declines in performance. If you want to guard against what Briggs is doing right now they should add some other performance dollars in years 2014 and 2015 that require significant achievement like pro bowl appearance, top 5 in total yds, etc.

This deal is on par with the ones that Jamaal Charles and Maurice Jones-Drew got and to me about what a top 10 back should be looking for. While only $16 mil is guaranteed unless Forte blows out a knee and ends his career he's about 90% certain to earn his 2013 roster bonus too so before the 2013 season even starts he will have earned over $18 mil and if he agrees to something like this he's no longer at risk for the 2011 season.

Originally Posted by The Benjamin

I was bored so I came up with a contract extention, tear up that should make everyone happy.

Tear up this contract and offer him a 5 year $39 million deal

$15M signing bonus
Year 1 $550K like be is supposed to earn
Year 2 $4.45M
Year 3 $5.5M
Year 4 $6.5M
Year 5 $7M

All reasonable I think

Overall you're being a little more generous than what I proposed because of the higher upfront bonus but it's not a bad deal if that's what he wants. You propose giving him 100% of his $15 mil SB now plus his 2011 salary of $550k so were on the hook for $15.55 mil in cash for 2011 but a cap cost of only $3.55 mil $15 mil SB/5 years = $3 mil per yr amortized). Compared to my proposal the salaries are higher in years 2012-2015 lieu of roster and other bonuses. I give him $1 mil more this year since we have the cap to do it.

I just approached if from a little different perspective since this is a year when we have a significant cap excess. I give him the same $15 mil in bonuses but I spread it out longer to reduce risk. Whether I designate the $10 mil now as a Signing Bonus or a Roster Bonus or split between them somehow depends on the other needs I may have for that cap money so it's flexible based on the other plans the team may have. I also bumped his year one salary because we have the cap space to do it and it get's him closer to the $2.25 mil that Barber makes this year. Worse case scenario is that I could move that 2014 Roster Bonus into this years salary if he demanded to make more than his backup and still have given less in year one than your proposal.

The bottom line is that you're being more generous earlier in the deal than I am and also making the deal worth $7 mil more than my $32 mil. I don't know if the Bears will go that high but we'll see. Essentially here's how it breaks down as far as what he gets as a cummulative total each year when you compare your proposal to mine.

YR..............Benji..............soulman
1st............$15.55.............$11.55..
2nd...........$20.00.............$16.05..
3rd............$25.50.............$21.55..
4th............$32.00.............$27.05..
5th............$39.00.............$32.55..

If your objective is backload his deal as you've previously posted then your proposal is even less backloaded than mine although you are giving him more in the way of total compensation and higher salaries in years 4 and 5. My guess is that while he'd love to have your deal what the Bears have in mind is closer to mine in total dollars or possibly even less. But both of our proposals would seem fair to me as amateurs in the world of NFL contract negotiations. Incidentally, you could also make some of your $15 mil front end a Roster Bonus too.