Thread: I'm 100% behind Forte but Matt, NO WHINING!!!

If I were Matt Forte, I would have held out after I found out what Chester Taylor was being paid...

3nagurski

This article should really piss some other people off besides me. Morrissey can write some of the most idiotic articles at times. I really wonder if he believes what he writes of he just finds an unpopular position and decides to take that stance. This has more holes in it than a 40 year old pair of blue jeans.

Bears’ Jerry Angelo might have the right ‘Theo-ry’ for not paying Matt Forte

RICK MORRISSEY rmorrissey@suntimes.com November 3, 2011 8:54PM
Updated: November 4, 2011 8:41AM


When Theo Epstein says that players should be paid for future ­performance rather than past accomplishments, people involuntarily drop to their knees at such brilliant, analytical thinking.
When Jerry Angelo takes a similar tack with Matt Forte, he’s an idiot and a mouthpiece for the genetically cheap McCaskeys. (I wouldn't call the McCaskey's cheap but Angelo is still an idiot for a whole lot of other reasons)

Do I have that about right? (No as usual, you don't. Most baseball players have far longer careers than a pro football running back. You can give a 26 year old slugging 3rd baseman a big dollar deal tha may last 10 years because he may be productive most of those years. When have you ever seen an NFL pro get a 10 years contract. Not even a QB gets that let a lone a RB. It's apples and oranges Morrissey)

The Cubs’ new president of baseball operations is a brainy visionary. The Bears’ general manager wouldn’t know greatness if he got ear-holed by it. (No one said that he didn't know what greatness is. It's just that he'd rather waste money on mediocre talent than pay for greatness)

Believe me, I understand: Epstein won two World Series when he was with the Red Sox, and Angelo hasn’t won a title in Chicago. He’s the bumbling GM who trips over his tongue, the one who can’t put together an offensive line. (Yes I agree. Is there a question in there somewhere?)

But he’s right on this subject.

He’s taking the very same approach for which Epstein has been lauded. Angelo is impressed by Forte’s production but can’t help but notice that running backs wear down in the NFL, often at warp speed. He also can’t help but notice that, given a good offensive line, a running back doesn’t have to be Walter Payton to succeed in the NFL. The Broncos of the late 1990s and early 2000s immediately come to mind.
Running backs get chewed up. (Which is why it's hard to project the future production of a 4 years vet like Matt Forte. Some consderation should be given for at least the present if not the past)

In an interview this week with the Sun-Times’ Sean Jensen, Forte had sharp words for the Bears — sharper than he has had at any time during his quest for a long-term contract.But one comment stood out.

‘‘The running back position is the most physically demanding on the field,’’ Forte said. ‘‘Everyone acknowledges that. So to continue to give me the touches I’ve had since my rookie year but not award me a long-term contract sends the message that you’re OK grinding me into a pulp.’’ (The fans already know this Matt so stop making a big deal about it in the press. You're preaching to the choir)

The Bears are indeed grinding him into a pulp. It’s what NFL teams do. Running backs get beaten up and worn down. That’s in the job description. (But you say when the man asks for consideration based on how he's played for you for 4 years that's not valid. It's only what you think he'll do the next 4 that count. Tell you what. Next time you're up for a raise I hope your boss bases it on what more of the useless crap like this you're capable of writing over the next few years rather than your glorious past. I'm 100% certain you don't negotiate based only on your future)

Forte turns 26 next month. Of the top 13 rushing leaders, 10 are 26 or younger. The Bills’ Fred Jackson, who is 30, is only in his third year as a starter, and the Falcons’ Michael Turner (29) is in his fourth. Of the over-26 group, only the 49ers’ Frank Gore, who is 28, has been a longtime starter.

Why would the Bears give a running back a lot of money if history shows most of them slow down and get hurt more often as the years pile up? How is that good business? (And that's why your comparison to Theo Epstein and pro baseball players is a lousy comparison. Under these circumstances only the top draft picks like Cedric Benson get the big money. How much of his contract did he earn versus how much more than his contract has Matt Forte earned. How much of that $7 mil they gave Chester Taylor did he earn. They guaranteed a 30+ RB past his prime $7 mil but will only double that for a 26 year old guy in his prime? And you claim that Angelo isn't an idiot?????)

Forte leads the league in combined rushing and receiving yards per game. Surely, the Bears are feeling the pressure of that success. How many times this season have we heard teammates, fans and media members say, “Pay the man”? By that, they mean, Give him a huge contract as a reward for the numbers he has put up. (Yes, that's part of it but no all of it. This year alone he's on target to lead the league in total yards. If you don't want to look at his past at least look at his present)

Forte has been wonderful this season. That’s not debatable. The Bears likely wouldn’t be 4-3 without him. So it’s understandable he would take the stalled negotiations personally. But this is business, and business says that paying a running back a big contract is a risky thing indeed. (And you mean to tell us that Matt Forte isn't taking an equal or greater risk by playing without long term guarantees?? If Forte has a career ending injury this year and never plays again he gets zip but the Bears will still go on making money just like any other team. And if they pay him and the same thing happens at least he gets some reward for a job well done and the Bears still go on making money hand over fist. So who's really taking the bigger risk?)

The Chris Johnson precedent

The Bears have been closely watching what has happened to the Titans’ Chris Johnson, who signed a contract with $30 million in guaranteed money Sept. 1. The man who rushed for a combined 4,598 yards the previous three seasons has 302 yards on 107 carries this season. Those numbers don’t mean Johnson’s career is going downhill; they mean he certainly isn’t doing a certain Bears running back any favors. (Hey, you finally said something I can agree with. Congrats)

Forte wants something similar to what Johnson, the Vikings’ Adrian Peterson ($36 million) and the Panthers’ DeAngelo Williams ($21 million) received in guarantees. Good luck with that. (CJ and AP kind of money no, but the Bears can afford guarantees closer to what DWill got. $14 mil is a low ball offer because Forte is still under contract and they can use the Franchise Tag on him)

Before the season, the Bears offered Forte a contract extension that included guarantees of about $13 million or $14 million. He rejected it. Fair enough. That’s his prerogative. The Bears very well might put the franchise tag on him for 2012, which would be the smart move if they’re convinced he’s at the peak of his abilities. It would cost them about $7.5 million. (Yes it would be if he is at his peak but it will cost them more to franchise him for two years than it would to up his guarantee and spread it out over the life of his contract. Franchise Tags are no very cap friendly at there are others who need extensions too)

If that sounds hardhearted (if $7.5 million can be considered hardhearted), it’s because pro sports is a hardhearted business. It also sounds very shrewd, very Theo-like: You pay for what you project someone will do, not for what someone has done. (It may work in baseball but it doesn't work well in football and it isn't done that way by the majority of the other NFL teams. So not only is Angelo a plain idiot, he's a maverick idiot as well)

When Epstein goes in that direction, it’s considered forward-thinking. When Angelo goes there, it’s considered hopelessly backward. (There you go. That's the second thing you've said that I can agree with)

Maybe, just maybe, Angelo is smarter than his NFL management brethren on this issue. (Since when did you get on Angelo's Christmas List? If you look at his complete body of work you couldn't even think that let alone print it.)

Originally Posted by MelbourneMatty

I can't really see many scenarios that don't include the Bears signing Forte, one way or the other.

I think this stuff is just the usual positioning to ensure both parties look like they have fought out for a good deal.

Just a matter of time, surely.

I'm sure you're right Matty but in the mean time it's kind of like an open wound. Given what other backs have gotten recently the Bears offer which guaranteed only $13-$14 mil is on the low side. Conversely the deal that CJ and AP signed were ridiculous as far as the amount guaranteed to them. Somewhere closer to the $21 mil DWill got would be a fair compromise if they can ever get there.

Nothing has come out about what Forte wants(outside of this article by morrisey) and if he does he's crazy. He should be looking for D Will money, or a little more at most.
It's not 7 games of "elite" play. Since he's been in the league the only rb's w/more total yards then Forte are AP and CJ (according to the score), so even if he is asking for that then he has a reason to believe he's worth it. What the Bears have been offering him is laughable; they need to up it and he is wanting AP/CJ money, he needs to come down.
And again, yes the yare grinding him; he's on pace to have more touches this year then in any of his previous years. I'd be pissed two if I couldn't get a contract done but the team was on pace to crush me for 370 touches(far to many for a rb)

Just put together a complilation of the top rb's I could think of from the last 4 years...forgive me if I missed someone, B/c of their recent dominance I actually put Foster and McCoy in here, but since they have only been in the league 3 years, I doubled their best rushing and passing years to make it more fair. I also gave(out of laziness) D Will and Fred Jax 06 and 07.

Forte is 300-400 yards off CJ and AP(25 yards a game), and Dwill, Rice, Foster* are 200-300(19 yards a game) off of Forte. So it's hard to say he's only had 7 elite games. He is an elite rb, and has been since being in the league. And I ask you, how many of those rb's do you think have a worse OL then he has to run behind?

player	years		total rush yards		total pass yards	total yards combined
ap	2008-2011	rush	5239	rec	1027	6266
cj	2008-2011	rush	4960	rec	1168	6128
forte	2008-2011	rush	3908	rec	1914	5822
A Foster	2009-2011*	rush	4021	rec	1618	5639
mjd	2008-2011	rush	4279	rec	1341	5620
D Will	2006-2011*	rush	4574	rec	983	5557
rice	2008-2011	rush	3502	rec	1904	5406
Steve Jax	2008-2011	rush	4148	rec	1167	5315
l mccoy	2009-2011*	rush	3501	rec	1630	5131
fred jax	2006-2011*	rush	3581	rec	1446	5027
gore	2008-2011	rush	3684	rec	1302	4986
turner	2008-2011	rush	4562	rec	259	4821
J Stuwart	2008-2011	rush	3066	rec	509	3575

Originally Posted by Henry Burris

Didn't Emmitt Smith hold out and complain about not getting paid? Disagree with the disagreement with Forte's attitude.

You forget, Henry, that Forte is not Emmitt Smith. At least not yet. He has had two solid seasons out of three complete ones, and he is on pace to reach numbers during this season that only Sweetness ever accomplished as a Bear - possibly even more than than Payton if he reaches the magical 1,000-1,000 mark. The thing I worry about with Forte is this: will he experience a letdown in productivity to the extent that we have seen out of Chris Johnson down in Nashville this season? Johnson is the second highest paid back in the league, yet is on pace to accumulate only 690 rushing yards. What if Forte decides to coast from the time he signs his contract onward? Also, and we've said this several times on here before, what if he signs a big contract and gets hurt? That's a lot of fucking money that we would have thrown away on him.

That being said, getting paid $600,000 for the level of performance he has produced is ridiculous. Pay the man a hefty sum of money, but make him earn it the hard way.

They're just going to wind up trading him to The Packers for a 3rd round pick.



Okay, I'm trollin'. Great thread!