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Originally Posted by
soulman
Henry there have been ups and downs in every major college program over the past 20 years. Even teams like Alabama, LSU and every other SEC school has had it's losing seasons and coaching changes but that hasn't stopped them from kicking out some good WR's.
I'm not at all opposed to drafting a WR. In fact I think we should. I just don't want to spend the 19th pick of the first round on him is all. Not when I think we can get better value in the second or top of the third. There are big guys who can get open and catch coming out of smaller programs every year and sometimes those guys fall through the cracks. Brandon Marshall was a 4th rounder.
We need to fill that hole now in FA. Any WR we draft won't hit his stride until at least 2013 or 2014 so why spend a 1st round pick on a guy you don't know can even help you for two years? If that's the case I'd rather only have a second or third round pick tied up in him than a first. Matt Millen practically killed the Lions with his first round WR busts before Megatron finally came along.
This has been my thinking as well when it comes to WRs: 2 of them--one established, veteran marqui player in FA (VJax being the obvious choice since he will be available almost for sure now) AND one out of the draft to develop and fulfill Hurd's role in the meantime. I strongly agree that using the 1st round pick on a WR would be a poor decision for all the reasons that have been cited. We aren't high enough to draft anyone that has much of a shot to be a 2012 impact player, we have other needs that would be better served in #1, and this rookie WR class is deep enough that there's going to be some diamond-in-the-rough talent potential available in rounds 2-3. Toon, McNutt, & Dwight Jones are likely 2nd rounders and there is some other interesting options like Jenkins, Fuller, White, etc. who should be around in 3.
Our biggest needs seem to be:
1) WR (FA VJax signing + depth in draft #2-3)
2a) OT (wish I knew...Bell in FA or get awfully lucky in #1)
2b) DE pass rusher (Avril in FA or round 1-2 in draft)
3) CB (FAs available, depth in draft ~ #3)
4) LB depth/Roach competition (FA/mid level draft)
JMO
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Demetrius Bell is a FA in 2012 MP but he's had recent knee surgery and that has been an ongoing problem throughout his career. That alone will probably throw up a lot of red flags around him. After losing both CWill abd Carimi this past years I don't think we want to gamble on one more guy with injury issues becoming a starter at LT.
I'm convinced that once the new GM and personnel people are in place that they can and will address the issue of a vet WR. Either Vincent Jackson or someone capable of coming in the door as a consistent big play go to guy swill be wearing a Bears jersey by next September. Tice has discussed his offensive philosophy which is grounded in a strong running game coupled with an explosive downfield passing game. He's got a great stable of RB's to do that with but he needs his Randy Moss equivalent and that guy we don't have. I believe we can count on the fact that we will get one who can lace 'em up and get it done now. Then we spend a higher draft choice on a rookie to work into the lineup and upgrade someone like Hester. As a side note, I think Tice will use him more effectively than Martz ever did and he's already made mention of his thoughts on that.
Cliff Avril becomes a FA in 2012 and signing him would be a nice coup. We strengthen our pass rush and at the same time weaken Detroit's. Here and at WR are the two areas we need to get very aggressive with in free agency. Then, just like WR, we draft another outside pass rusher possibly using that #19 pick on him. It seems like one or two of the better DE's will still be on the board then and if they are that's the direction I would go in.
So, we get immediate help and depth at two positions which are critical to our success on both sides of the ball.
I have no idea of what to do about a LT though. Bell seems to much of an injury problem to take a chance on and several of the best younger prospects got wrapped up with deals last year. That's not unexpected though. Almost no one lets a good young LT walk so I think we need to look at what greybeards with another season or two in them might be out there. I can't see Tice moving either Carimi or CWill into that spot so whoever we decide on to compete with Webb has to come from outside the team. We should see a list of potential FA's coming out fairly soon.
The nice thing about this free agency and draft for the incoming GM is that we have a very decent cap excess for him to acquire better talent with and an extra 3rd round pick which gives us 4 picks in the top 100 players. If spend the first on a DE and the second on a WR there should still be enough good CB and LB prospects left to fill those needs and maybe even a LT project if we get lucky.
All things considered anybody who comes into the GM role has a pretty nice setup coming in the door. He has an established coaching staff in place, a franchise QB, a Pro-Bowl RB and good depth behind him, a pretty nice cap excess and that extra 3rd round pick to do some maneuvering with if that makes sense. All in all that should be a pretty attractive come one for the right guy. We have some competition with other teams that's true but I don't think anyone else has this sweet a package waiting for the right guy.
I'm getting to that age where a lifetime warranty just doesn't mean as much to me anymore as an afternoon nap.
Honey Badger Don't Care. Honey Badger Don't Give a Shit.
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Soul, I understand that Bell has question marks and is by no means an obviously wise target. If he didn't have "issues", he wouldn't have 1 in 100 chance of hitting FA. No team lets go of a surefire starting LT easily. As many of us have stated, there is no easy solutions to our LT problem since JA screwed up last year by failing to sign Bushrod when he had a chance (and cap $) to secure him. Instead we rolled the dice with Webb who, as you stated, has swung inconsistently between looking like the 7th round steal-of-the-century and looking like OMG-the second. Cutler needs and deserves better. Webb can/should be upgraded and OMG has to be pushed off the depth chart as backup OT. How to get it? I have no freaking clue. If we can find some vet OT in FA who can give us a couple solid years before hanging it up, great...who? If by some very unlikely miracle Martin or Reiff falls to us in #1, then problem solved. Otherwise we are hosed and can expect games next year where Jay is under siege again and we have to keep TEs in to help Webb. God forbid Omiyale ever sniffs the field again.
I agree wholeheatedly with you about our RB corps. KBell, despite his needed ball security improvements, was impressive as Forte's backup. And Barber, again despite his few key screwups, ran well too. We should have 2 and maybe 3 pretty damn good RBs next year. I also agree with your assesment of WR and that a new GM has to be enticed by the possibilities before him. VJax would be a coup and Avril would both strengthen us & weaken a key divisional rival. The other needs/holes/depth at CB, LB, (DE), etc are quite fixable for an innovative GM.
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Somewhere between now and March we should see an accurate list of FA's for 2012. In all likelihood Bell will be on that list along with a handful of others. Somehow we have to find one because I can't see another year with Webb and OMG as our only choices.
However, what may save Webb's ass is the fact that Tice likes him and in Tice's offense he won't be called upon to pass block for 7 step drops the way he was in Martz's. We already know that he is a fair run blocker. Despite this we still need another experienced OT and we don't have one so we need to find one. Louis looked pretty good at RT in his first couple of games but once KC solved him his performance went downhill fast. He needs to go back inside and at best become an emergency OT like he was this year.
I think somebody less risky than Bell will pop up on the FA list.
I'm getting to that age where a lifetime warranty just doesn't mean as much to me anymore as an afternoon nap.
Honey Badger Don't Care. Honey Badger Don't Give a Shit.
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Webb and OMG are potentially the two worst offensive linemen in the league right now, particularly OMG. In my opinion, we need to get at least OMG off of this roster and maybe Webb, too. I don't see Webb having much of a future with this team because he is just too damn inconsistent.
That being said, I would trade up and go after an OT in the first round. If we can sign Avril at DE, great - that solves one big problem. But we need to stock up on a solid OT, and I think Martin would be a good one to look at trading up for.
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Ruskell is going to trade down lol
Arguing on the internet is like winning the special olympics, even if you win your still messed up.
Restore the roar!
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Originally Posted by
Dagan81
Webb and OMG are potentially the two worst offensive linemen in the league right now, particularly OMG. In my opinion, we need to get at least OMG off of this roster and maybe Webb, too. I don't see Webb having much of a future with this team because he is just too damn inconsistent.
That being said, I would trade up and go after an OT in the first round. If we can sign Avril at DE, great - that solves one big problem. But we need to stock up on a solid OT, and I think Martin would be a good one to look at trading up for.
If we could sign a guy like Avril and that spare third could get us a rookie who could push Webb out of his LT spot I'd be all for it. We have a franchise QB, a pro bowl RB and good backup for him so the only skill position we need on offense is a true #1 WR. It all starts upfront and we gained ground at the OG positions this year and Carimi will be the RT for the next 10 years or so provided he can stay healthy. So if we can get a LT in the draft I say do it. If not I'd prefer a pass rusher to any other position with that #19 pick. There's a need there as well.
I'm getting to that age where a lifetime warranty just doesn't mean as much to me anymore as an afternoon nap.
Honey Badger Don't Care. Honey Badger Don't Give a Shit.
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Originally Posted by
little bear
Since Mike Martz is no longer our OC would you trade Johnny Knox to the Panthers for Greg Olsen?
I would make that trade every day of the week.
But why the hell would Carolina be stupid enough to make that trade?
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Originally Posted by
The Benjamin
I would make that trade every day of the week.
But why the hell would Carolina be stupid enough to make that trade?
Because Carolina was stupid enough to trade Chris Harris for Jamar Williams two years ago. ^^
Since Steve Smith is getting old the Panthers could use some younger guys at WR and they also need a KR/PR with speed.
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Me too...but any team would have be stupid beyond belief to give up a beer vendor for Knox right now. Nobody knows if he's even gonna be able to play next year yet much less how the injury/surgery will affect his speed.
Last edited by MPBears68; 01-08-2012 at 11:53 AM.
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