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Originally Posted by
matsellah 
Again, to me, this whole thing is ass-backwards.
Okay, so ownership is presenting themselves as looking for someone with deep experience/success in the draft and evaluating college talent.
That's fine.
Probably because the team is so damned thin at depth, there's no way to replenish without going bankrupt other than the draft. Besides, they've spent plenty on FAs and have gotten mostly burned.
Great.
But if that's the problem, shouldn't you have fired your college scouting director?
I mean, I can't imagine JA ignoring his CSD during the draft and just making picks on his own. There had to be some input, he had to be soliciting recommendations. And if the ones he got were as crappy as his own decisions, then that guy needs to go sell insurance too.
Hiring someone with deep college scouting experience to be your new GM and expecting him to pick someone to run pro scouting is ass-backwards. College scouting requires road work, detachment from the front office and lots of territory to cover. Pro scouts pretty much have everything at their fingertips, allowing them time to get into other facets of running a franchise.
A new article up on Sun-Times talks about this. Here's a sample:
To me, it should say the Bears should hire someone with a strong pro scouting background as the general manager, then count on him to hire a director with a strong college background.
And who is The Bears college guy?
Mats, Angelo did fire them last year, both of them. Greg Gabriel was the Bears College Personnel guy and Bobby DePaul was head of Pro Personnel. That's when he brought in Ruskell and consolidated all the scouting and personnel under him. So the guy sitting in the GM chair on an interim basis was the Bears Director of Scouting. Comforting huh?
I think Gabriel and DePaul both did good work but that's when JA's scapegoating began in earnest. Both guys had been with the team for awhile. Gabriel now writes a column for the National Football Post that I've posted articles from but I don't know what DePaul is doing. I do know both were well respected guys around the league.
I don't know that it matters all that much that you hire a college personnel guy as the GM and he hires a pro personnel guy. In fact it's probably the right way to go. At the pro level you already have a good idea of what a guy can and can't do an how well he fits your team. I think the most important skill that guy might have is finding unsung talent on another teams practice squad or waiver wire like we did with Clutts. I think it's harder to spot the right college talent and get into a position to draft them and that was Jerry Angelo's downfall. For the most part his drafts ranged from mediocre to sucks like a Hoover.
I see your point about what it takes to get out and find that talent but if the guy is sharp and has scouts he trusts he can learn a lot from game film, attending some all star games, and talking to college coaches. We have to have someone who knows how and who to draft where. That's the only way they can keep this team in contention year in and year out. Buying guys like Peppers and Cutler are just too costly and despite what Angelo thought they don't always make the players around them better.
That's my take on it.
Last edited by soulman; 01-11-2012 at 10:50 PM.
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I'd say this would be a perfect time for Ross to come in. Gets a year w/a relatively intact team for a year before he cleans house, amass some experience, and get his own set of scouts in order.
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Originally Posted by
WindyCity My list,
#1 Ross: The guy is young and has a proven track record of draft success especially at WR, if you really want to know his value go to a Giants forum right now because they are freaking out.
#2 Raye: The Chargers draft really well and they draft really well on offense.
#3 Licht: I do not know why people are so down on Patriots guys they have had success and I like that he comes from the PROFESSIONAL no nonsense Patriots.
#4 Emery: He looks ancient and boring and we already went through that.
my list as well
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That the same order I would like. Ross first then Raye
Originally Posted by
WindyCity My list,
#1 Ross: The guy is young and has a proven track record of draft success especially at WR, if you really want to know his value go to a Giants forum right now because they are freaking out.
#2 Raye: The Chargers draft really well and they draft really well on offense.
#3 Licht: I do not know why people are so down on Patriots guys they have had success and I like that he comes from the PROFESSIONAL no nonsense Patriots.
#4 Emery: He looks ancient and boring and we already went through that.
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I will remain somewhat optimistic these are token interviews
mats of the JA ignoring his guys there was a report a year ago the scouts begged JA to take Starks(Packer starting RB) but he insisted on Lefevour and we all know how that story goes. That is one instance that has gone public I bet there are more. And when JA was fired rumors came out scouts all were complaining about JA.
On the candidates from the list I like Ross the most. Giants have 4 DE that can start on other teams and none of them overpaid FA all drafted. That should give Lovie a boner. Plus the Giants have had a cover 2 disciple as a DC for two years so that matches some of Lovie's wants. And their offense running game clicks and wrs are amazing despite being a running team. I think this could be a winning combo
I like Raye also but their drafts have tailed off. But the caveat to that is how much of it could be Turner not developing players who has been a failure of a HC in this league.
Dont like anyone from NE. They had allot of quality draft picks and have shit to show for it. Brady goes down they are as bad as the Colts.
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Chargers' Raye to interview with Bears
SCOTT KRINCH
While the Bears have their list of four candidates that they will interview for the open GM position, San Diego Chargers director of player personnel Jimmy Raye will be the first one to visit Halas Hall for an interview, according to CSN's Kip Lewis.
Raye has been with the Chargers since 1996, spending four years as a scout and eight years as director of college scouting before being promoting to director of player personnel in 2007.
He played his college football at SDSU and is tied for eighth on the school's all-time receiving list with 111 catches. Raye spent parts of three NFL season's with the Los Angeles Rams, Houston Texans and Chargers. His father, Jimmy Raye II, spent 34 years as an NFL coach, most recently with the San Francisco 49ers as their offensive coordinator in 2010.
One area that plagued Jerry Angelo was his failure to bring in young talent through the NFL Draft. Raye's resume speaks for itself, he's helped infuse San Diego's roster with multiple Pro Bowl players through the draft.
After the Chargers selected Ryan Leaf using the No. 2 overall pick in the '98 NFL Draft which proved to be one of the biggest busts of all time, the organization needed an overhaul. So in need of a change, the very next year Raye was promoted to director of college scouting. Raye then went on to help the Chargers lay the foundation for a perennial playoff team with the likes of:
LaDanian Tomlinson, RB (1st Rd. - 2001)
Drew Brees, QB (2nd Rd. - 2001)
Quentin Jammer, CB (1st Rd. - 2002)
Philip Rivers, QB (1st Rd. - 2004)
Nate Kaeding, K (3rd Rd. - 2004)
Shaun Phillips, LB (4th Rd. - 2004)
Michael Turner, RB (5th Rd. - 2004)
Shawne Merriman, LB (1st Rd. - 2005)
Luis Castillo, DE (1st Rd. - 2005)
Vincent Jackson, WR (2nd Rd. - 2005)
Darren Sproles, RB (4th Rd. - 2005)
Antonio Cromartie, CB (1st Rd. - 2006)
Marcus McNeill, OT (2nd Rd. - 2006)
Eric Weddle, S (2nd Rd. - 2007)
Louis Vasquez, OG (3rd Rd. - 2009)
Ryan Matthews, RB (1st Rd. - 2010)
Donald Butler, LB (3rd Rd. - 2010)
Cam Thomas, DT (5th Rd. - 2010)
Corey Liuget, DE (1st Rd. - 2011)
cont
Chargers' Raye to interview with Bears
Update: CSN's Kip Lewis confirms the Bears will interview Chargers' Raye on Thursday.
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Raye and Ross are at the top of my list and I would be thrilled with either of them.
-Young [40] and can grow into the position over this year with an established team and coach.
-Offensive Talent is the Chargers specialty and he has been involved in drafting some exceptional offensive talent.
-Background, he has worked with A.J Smith and his dad was a scout and personnel man in the NFL so he has been around this for a long time.
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The one thing we know about Ted Phillips and his nreay 30 years with the team is that he values his survival and NOTHING else including the fans.
Ted fired Jerry Angelo because he knew the fan base and George McCaskey were not happy with the situation and to save himself he under the bused Angelo.
As Bears fans I think that we can all agree on this.
With that being said why would Ted hire Tim Ruskell?
-If he hires Rusekll, who everyone is predicting is a failure, that decision puts the Bulls Eye on Phillips. Phillips has already had a GM failure and he does not want a 2nd one quickly hung around his neck.
By hiring a young guy with a good reputation the Bears can get 2-3 years of a grace period and if it fails they can say that they tried and it did not work.
-If he hires Ruskell to be a Lovie YES man then he is not only connecting himself with Ruskell, but also Lovie. So if Lovie and Ruskell need to go Ted is tied right to them and on his way out.
By hiring a new young guy they can fire Lovie and claim a couple of seasons of transistion and Phillips is insulated from all of it because it will be the new guys decision.
Phillips is going to protect himself and he can do that with Raye or Ross and move himself even further from some of the failures of the last 10 years.
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perhaps you are giving George a little too much credit. He could be the same as any other Mckaskey. How do you know it wasnt his idea firing JA just to keep the fan base from being pissed?
this family primary income is the team. The moves they make are business money decisions. Promoting Ruskell is the cheap way out. I think their plan is back firing with that seeing the fan hate brought out from the thought that he would be the new gm.
I dont think Philips job is on the line. He made the family a shit load of money with their stadium deal. He probably is a fixture for the fore seeable future
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Originally Posted by
motownbear perhaps you are giving George a little too much credit. He could be the same as any other Mckaskey. How do you know it wasnt his idea firing JA just to keep the fan base from being pissed?
this family primary income is the team. The moves they make are business money decisions. Promoting Ruskell is the cheap way out. I think their plan is back firing with that seeing the fan hate brought out from the thought that he would be the new gm.
I dont think Philips job is on the line. He made the family a shit load of money with their stadium deal. He probably is a fixture for the fore seeable future
But Phillips does not want to be hated and does not want public sentiment to get him like it got JA.
But with Ruskell everyone knows that it is more of the same and Lovie in charge and they are all together in the basket.
By hiring a guy like Raye, Phillips can align himself with Raye and not with Lovie, Ruskell and Angelo.
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