Thread: Raiders request permission to interview Tice

Originally Posted by matsellah

First, it is a negative.

Organizations are run top-down. Your head coach having a say in the new GM is the same as having the Speaker Of the House picking the Vice President, the Platoon Sergeant picking the next Lieutenant, Curly picking the next Moe.

It might be popular, it might even make sense (in some cases), but it never - ever works out. It slows things down. It cripples the effectiveness of the organization to run smoothly. It causes conflict and controversy and makes the whole evolution look ridiculous and ineffective, which devalues the team both financially and as a source of pride. Why are we (as fans) even accepting of this makes me scratch my head.

You can't argue agains the Licht logic because doing so would be almost as bad as accepting the logic of having your HC be involved in picking your next GM.

Mats it's Rosenblooms contention not mine. All I said was that there isn't much logic in telling everyone your new GM has to be a strong evaluator of talent and then select a guy who doesn't even hold that position with the team he works for. Maybe they know something no one else does but on the surface it makes no sense. All I'm saying is that I don't find any faulty logic in Rosenbloom's statement but I do find a lack of logic on the Bears part if what Rosenbloom says is accurate.

This has nothing to do with the logic or lack of logic of having your HC involved in the selection of a GM. Your examples don't relate to what's actually happening. Lovie has input but he's not picking the guy as your contending. Input is a long way from power to hire. This is an example of where Rosenbloom writes more for effect than analysis. It's my opinion that it isn't as big a deal as it's being made out to be. That Lovies role in it is being mischaracterized. He doesn't get the final say. Having someone who is on the same page with him is a good thing because I think that was the problem around there with Angelo. So if you're gonna correct that problem see to it that the two most important people on your team at that level respect one another and can work together.

That's what's happening but that's not the way it's being depicted by Rosenbloom and others. I post Rosenblooms stuff because he's a critic not an "I'm here to blow sunshine up you ass" Bears hire like Larry Mayer but I also post some of Mayers stuff too. That doesn't mean I believe 100% in what either of these guys have to say.

Maybe I feel the way I do because I once had to hire an assistant manager for the divison of the company I managed. Was it wrong to consult with my employees and seek their opinions and input about the people I was considering. I don't think it was and that's closer to what's going one then you examples of Curly hiring Moe or the Sargeant picking a Lt. Lovie isn't picking the guy Ted Phillips is but he'd like to find a guy Lovie can work with and that's it.

I have a thought that makes this even simpler. Suppose out of the five candidates Lovie finds three of the five that he believes he can work with. For the sake of arguement let's say it's Raye, Emery, and Ruskell.

Since managements objecive is to hire the best evaluator of talent they decide it's Jimmy Raye and they offer him the job. Raye turns them down because he decides that he can't accept the conditions of the hire. So they offer it to the next best which is Emery and he accepts. Lovie's only part was providing input on the hire. Ted Phillips made the final decision and made the offers in the order he rated these guys based on the teams requirements which was a good evaluator of talent who would agree to work with Lovie for at least one year.

I just can't find anything all that wrong with that approach. If the guy is stuck with Lovie at least for 2012 don't you want a guy who will work well with him and can be objective a year from now as to whether to keep him or hire his own coach?

I think it would be a terrible mistake for Lovie to go outside the organization to find an offensive coordinator should Tice leave without the input of the new GM. I am particularly interested in the cases of Raye and Ross because of their differing philosophies. San Diego runs a high falutin' offense like the old "Air Coryell" offenses of the late 70s/early 80s that is light on rushing the ball in comparison to what Tice would bring to the table should he decide to stay.

Compare that with Ross. The Giants have traditionally been a very balanced offense, with Eli Manning passing for about 4,000 yards in his best seasons while having two bruising running backs pounding away at the line of scrimmage and running off tackle, wearing opposing defenses down. I think, in this instance, Ross might be better suited offensively with Lovie's philosophy of "getting off the bus running" on offense. I think Lovie saw with Martz what limiting the running game to only about 30% or less of the total play calls can do to adversely affect a team. One thing, though, that I will say in defense of the San Diego Chargers' offensive strategy is that the utilize their tight ends very effectively. (Antonio Gates, anyone?) In recent years, though, the team has veered away from operating with a balance of pass and run since Marty Schottenheimer was fired at the conclusion of the 2006 season. I don't know if Lovie would like that or not. In that instance, he may be better off working with Ross.

Originally Posted by Dagan81

I think it would be a terrible mistake for Lovie to go outside the organization to find an offensive coordinator should Tice leave without the input of the new GM. I am particularly interested in the cases of Raye and Ross because of their differing philosophies. San Diego runs a high falutin' offense like the old "Air Coryell" offenses of the late 70s/early 80s that is light on rushing the ball in comparison to what Tice would bring to the table should he decide to stay.

Compare that with Ross. The Giants have traditionally been a very balanced offense, with Eli Manning passing for about 4,000 yards in his best seasons while having two bruising running backs pounding away at the line of scrimmage and running off tackle, wearing opposing defenses down. I think, in this instance, Ross might be better suited offensively with Lovie's philosophy of "getting off the bus running" on offense. I think Lovie saw with Martz what limiting the running game to only about 30% or less of the total play calls can do to adversely affect a team. One thing, though, that I will say in defense of the San Diego Chargers' offensive strategy is that the utilize their tight ends very effectively. (Antonio Gates, anyone?) In recent years, though, the team has veered away from operating with a balance of pass and run since Marty Schottenheimer was fired at the conclusion of the 2006 season. I don't know if Lovie would like that or not. In that instance, he may be better off working with Ross.

I'm sure a GM would have input into any hiring since he has to come with the money to pay the guy but in the final analysis it's still Lovie's decision. Losing Tice would be a very bad thing. Any really good OC won't want to come to Chicago when all Lovie has is a one year guarantee on his job. That's about how we ended up with Martz two years ago. There's no way to prevent it but it leaves this team in a world of hurt again on that side of the ball.

First I don't see McKenzie hiring Tice "I hope anyway" I think he is simply going through the motions and hey why not stick a thorn in the side of your arch rival when you can. It's already cost the passing coordinator position as Tices candidate "Olson" took the Jaguars job with Tice busy with his Oakland interview. I think McKenzie will hire Moss as McKenzie is on the record as saying he would hire Moss if ever given the chance. This is Phillips mess when he let J.A. go he should have let Lovie go as well as most GM's want to put their people in place and you would have thought the Bears learned their lesson with the Martz OC fiasco but not Phillips money is the name of this game as he didn't want to dole out the buy out of both Angelo and Smith, business/money before doing what is actually right and let the new GM do the deed next year if things go south and then we fans can blame the new GM. "Mediocrity by design" is my new slogan for Phillips and the Bears under Phillips guidance.

Originally Posted by GSH Monsters

First I don't see McKenzie hiring Tice "I hope anyway" I think he is simply going through the motions and hey why not stick a thorn in the side of your arch rival when you can. It's already cost the passing coordinator position as Tices candidate "Olson" took the Jaguars job with Tice busy with his Oakland interview. I think McKenzie will hire Moss as McKenzie is on the record as saying he would hire Moss if ever given the chance. This is Phillips mess when he let J.A. go he should have let Lovie go as well as most GM's want to put their people in place and you would have thought the Bears learned their lesson with the Martz OC fiasco but not Phillips money is the name of this game as he didn't want to dole out the buy out of both Angelo and Smith, business/money before doing what is actually right and let the new GM do the deed next year if things go south and then we fans can blame the new GM. "Mediocrity by design" is my new slogan for Phillips and the Bears under Phillips guidance.

Whether or not Tice gets hired away he still had the option of declining the interview and getting his offensive coaching staff set. Two guys rumored as top candidates for QB and Oline are going or staying elsewhere. This a mess we didn't need or exactly ask for. I know you can't refuse the guy the opportunity but it's the Raiders for cryin' out loud. Guys on death row survive longer than a Raiders HC.

This goes back to when Rivera kept getting courted for HC spots before Lovie let him go and he goes from a DC to a LB coach. Tice got as nice promotion and a chance to really test his offensive coaching and play calling skills and all this diversion is doing is prolonging the job of getting the staff together. I guess to a certain extent I'm pissed that he didn't do what DeCosta did and simple refuse the interview and get on with his new job.

I just hope in the next week that all of this crap with a new GM, Tice and additions to the coaching staff get ironed out. The Bears are beginning to look like fools again. No wonder guys hesitate about working for them.

I do, too, grow tired of seeing the Bears look like the laughing stocks of the NFL. I'm not saying that they're the absolute worst franchise in the league by any stretch of the imagination, but Lovie really knows how to pick his coaches and when to fire them...and I say that whilst it drips with sarcasm. I somehow think that Tice will think twice (hey, that rhymed) before interviewing for the Raiders head coaching position. He's not going to want a job working for a franchise that fires its head coaches seemingly on a whim. Tom Cable was a solid head coach who got screwed, and I can't even put into words as to what I think about the Hue Jackson firing. The Raiders have an unstable front office that's probably so much so that I doubt Reggie McKenzie will keep his job with the team for very long before Mark Davis cans him. He could be potentially a worse boss to work for than Michael McCaskey, if that's possible.

If Tice knows what's good for him, he will wait for another opportunity. I'm a little surprised that Miami hasn't offered him a job. Maybe they will. I don't know.