Thread: Phillips Says Bears Have No Intention of Letting Forte Reach Free Agency...

If you look at the disparity in the average annual value of the deals listed you can see why they're having a problem. What the Bears have offered him definitely falls toward the lower end of that spectrum. I believe Forte knows he won't get the deal that AB got and even the fact that Minny paid him that much seems ridiculous to me.

I'm betting Forte wants the Bears to come up with something around what DWill got with about $20 mil in guarantees and an average of about $8 mil per year. The Bears last offer was for around $14 mil in guarantees and closer to $7 mil per year. If they're gonna resolve this then I believe they have to meet somewhere in the middle.

Now that Emery is in charge it will be interesting to see what happens.

Originally Posted by Jimmors

Yes, i know that teams dont pay for past performance. However...past performance (especially underpaid) should be taken into account to soften the blow when "overpaying" a player. You wont see me going out on a limb and saying stuff like this very often, but i truly believe Forte is one of those rare players who truly deserves it.

But how far do you take that before it affects your ability to sign other talent? I never thought Angelo's offer was anything else than a "lowball" one and he as much as said so indicating that he didn't need to compete with what DWill got because he was a FA. Well Forte is a FA now too albeit one they can franchise if they choose to.

Looking at it from the Bears perspective whether they admit it or not franchising him is costly and hurts the cap situation this year. If they can sign him long term and pay him a small salary in 2012 and amortize his signing bonus over 4 or 5 years they're far better off because it frees up cap $$$ for others.

From Forte's perspective AP got a fortune and he's proven himself to be just as effective or more for the Bears as AP has been for the Vikes. Regardless of that he won't get anywhere near that kind of deal but that contract skews numbers in Forte's favor. I think Forte looks at the DWill deal as what he wants and the question is will he accept less since I don't think the Bears will give him that much in guarantees even with Emery now in the negotiators chair for the Bears.

At this point these RB deals have gotten so crazy that I don't even know what constitutes fair and what constitutes over-paying.

I'm somewhat torn on this. For the most part I'd side with not breaking the bank to sign him. Something north of what was offered but not so much that it affects other signings that to me are equally important. Forte needs to come to the realization that he's a high mileage back at his peak and that peak only lasts so long. Even great backs rarely stay great past their 6th or 7th year before the decline begins and once it happens the curve is a steep one.

He may last for another 5 years this way or he may not be so lucky the next time he takes a shot to his knee. Both sides need to be considered by both parties. Neither gets it all their way if this is ever gonna get settled. Right now we could easily get at least a first round pick for him in trade or more and you have to weigh that against the cost of keeping him. A rookie would cost far less.

Where you and I will probably disagree is on the value of the RB position itself. Matt Forte is an elite all around back but there are guys like him out there every year. As good as he is he also benefited from some great run blocking this year. That becomes more obvious when we see that Kahil Bell averaged over 4.5 yards per carry too as a sub and Bell was picked up as a FA. Is Bell as good as Forte? No, but you could win with him provided he can learn to hold onto the ball better.

Arian Foster was a FA and he's tearing it up in Houston and from what I read earlier Ryan Grants days in GB are numbered and James Starks will be taking over. The same James Starks we passed over for a QB we couldn't even hold onto. If we had drafted Starks then Forte would probably be on the block. RB, even very good RB, are replaceable.

I'm not saying don't pay the man but I am saying there's a limit to how much you can tie up in him. Cutler is due for an extension in another year and we need one very good LT and also a very good WR and those don't come cheap. The draft and FA are coming up and everyone is clamoring for one or the other or both. Somewhere you have to carve out some cap space to do that. Just sayin'.

I agree with Soul. RBs are "easy" to replace.


and if he really really really wants to stay in chicago that much, he should accept a fair deal for both sides...

Originally Posted by Riczaj01

Okay, I'm not saying break the back on him...but RB's are not easy to replace either. ask Seattle, who is still trying to replace Alexander....and ask, well the Bears who up until Forte were still trying to replace neal anderson. SD is still trying to find a guy to replace LT, Dallas hasn't had a decent rb since Emmitt, Barber was decent for a few years but not great, and they cannot even replace him.

Got to pay him in the range of D Will money, that is a hometown discount considering Forte has shown to be a top 5 back, and it's still not breaking the bank. I also disagree he's a high mileage back, he doesn't take a lot of huge hits b/c so many of his yards are through receptions so he's getthing hit by lb's and db' instead of DL. He's going to have another good 4-5 years easy(barring serious inj which could happen to any position on the field).

What makes him high mileage Ric is the number of touches he's had over the last four years and it's a lot. No matter who hits him he's getting hit and the tackles from LB's and Safeties can be just as jarring or more than DL's because both RB and tackler are moving at greater speed than when he's stopped at or behind the line.

I'll accept the fact that the guy works very hard to keep himself in top shape running the hills just like Payton did and he could well last another 4 or 5 years at his peak but that's not assured. He's been injured twice already during his career and while the first didn't cost him any loss of time he wasn't the same back in his second year that he was as a rookie or this year before his injury. All it takes is one really big pop to end it or at least slow the progress. Gale Sayers career was pretty much ended by one tackle that tore up his knee and Neal Anderson wasn't the same back during the last two years of his career that he was prior to that.

I don't see the Bears matching the deal DWill unless there's a ton of backended funny money he's not likely to see. But, I do think the need to close the gap. Angelo was negotiating based on what guys who got extensions were given the year before. The price had gone up but he didn't and insisted that the offer was a fair one. I think we all see that differently. Cliff Stein has a lot to do with how these negotiations go because he has a great handle on the cap not only in the current year but also what it looks like down the road as other cap costs escalate.

We don't have a spread sheet that shows that nor do we know what the cap limit is likely to be but I'm certain he does. The Bears don't like to backend deal because it can create "cap hell" in a very short period of time and then you have to either restructure the deal or let the guy go. Look at some of the FA's who will hit the market this spring who we talk about daily as on or wish list. Many of those guys are becoming FA because their teams can't afford to keep them. You can only have so many $10 mil a year guys on the team.

I would like to see them come up with a 4 or 5 year offer that gets closer to $20 mil in guarantees some of which is in deferred bonuses pushed out to years three and after. With the needs to fill some holes franchising Forte isn't a good strategy for the Bears to pursue from a cap stand point because his whole salary hits the cap this year. That $8 mil would cut pretty deeply into that cap excess. I want to see them keep him but not at the expense of damaging the acquisition of other FA's or even some of our own.