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Agreed but MM is not a #2 WR. He's the #3 guy with NY and he wouldn't beat Bennett out for the #2 spot here if we ever get him out of the slot. In fact it would even be a tossup between him and Knox if Knox rates #2.Quote:
Originally Posted by WindyCity
Srsly, our WRs this season were:
Bennett
Hester
Williams
Knox
Hurd
Sanzanbacher
Of those, 1 is going to prison, 1 has proven a complete waste at WR, another just flat out sucks at fighting for the ball and should not be counted on next year (because of the injury), another is good but not great, and the last should be our worst receiver, rather than 2nd or 3rd best. With that said, we need to completely clean out that position, 1 expensive FA, 1 cheapie (which is why Manningham is not a bad idea) and 1 draft pick (I prefer Floyd, but if Emery knows what he's doing, IDC who it is), that way we've got new blood at the position. Just adding one or two isn't gonna fix this, and that is also why the WR position is so much worse than the O-Line; there's only one J'Marcuss Webb on that line, there's 4-5 catching the ball.
Why get rid of Bennett? He and Cutler have great chemistry and Bennett catches everything thrown at him. Hester should be moved to slot to replace Bennett outside and have a limited number of snaps. Knox and MM? Throw a blanket over them and grab on or the other, they're virually the same and if the don't move Bennett from the slot then we need Knox at the other WR spot as a deep threat.
Get a very good WR in FA who can get open and catch over the middle and it will take a lot of pressure of the others. At least that way Knox won't be running routes he has no business running. Draft another WR we can develop and by his third year he may step in and replace others.
Manningham is not gonna do anything more than replace someone we already have unless it's Sanz and I hate to give up on him yet. He gets open consistently but he needs to hold onto the ball. We don't really need Mario Manningham and I'll stand by that. This is nothing more than too much disatisfaction with the current bunch and an over reaction to that catch.
I have faith in Dane Sanzenbacher too, like soul does. As an Ohio State football fan (I love Tennessee football, too), I recall seeing Sanzenbacher making clutch catches for the Buckeyes from the slot receiver position. He was his senior class's version of Anthony Gonzalez, and he had some of the best hands I had seen on a receiver in years. When I told my best friend, an Ohio State alum who is more into Buckeye football than I am, about Dane's struggles, he shook his head and could believe it. He felt that he was screwed over simply for not getting drafted, and then he was shocked over his struggles. I think Sanzenbacher has one more good year left in him to prove his worth to the Bears. He may wind up taking Hester's place on the field.
Soul, again look at the TD's(18 to 12), the rec's (160 to 130), and the lack of fumbles(2 to 4). He's better. You don't like him fine, you don't think we need him(I agree if it were to be the #1). but if you really think Knox is his equal, I feel sorry for you. Knox isn't. I didn't say he ran percise routes, just better then Knox, who still cannot run a good slant, or fight for a ball.
You're reaching Ric. We have had one of the crappiest passing offenses in the league over the past 3 years that I've compared stats. Despite that Knox has almost as much yardage on fewer catches and a higher apc. I would expect MM to have more TD's playing in that offense. I'd be downright disappointed if he didn't. Now put MM on the Bears and see what his stats would be. The Giants Oline is world's better than the Bears and Eli hasn't been running for his life for the last three years either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Riczaj01
What does number of catches mean in the scheme of things? Is a RB with more carries but a lower ypc better than the back with less carries and a higher ypc? You realize when you say MM is better because he had more catches but averaged about 2 yards less per catch that's exactly what you're implying. And look at the difference in the 2011 season where both had virtually the same number of catches. Knox/37 for 727 yards to MM's/39 for 523 yards and Knox apc over 6 yards higher per catch than Knox's. Yeah I can sure see where MM is a lot better than Knox just by looking at that. Do you still want me to go on?
I'll give you the fumbles but 2 more over three years hardly constitutes a major advantage especially when Knox damn near got killed just as he was recovering the one in the Seattle game. As for route running I think I covered that Ric. You record and send me all of the Giant games you Tivo'd and watched this year and I'll watch them too then maybe we could come to an intelligent conclusion about that. Otherwise it's just your opinion and you have zero to back that up!!!! If Manningham was all that and a bag of chips how did Cruz take his job away?
I feel sorry for you and everyone else who can't look at the facts rather than their emotions and the fucking hard ons you all have for Mario Manningham over one lousy catch. You all look like complete fools.
This is a totally useless argument. The Bears need a top notch #1 WR, not more #3 receivers so why we're even considering upgrading at #3 before we take care of #1 is futile. You could put 6 Mario Mannighams on the Bears and you still wouldn't have a receiving core any better than we have now. End of story.
PS: What's MM average on KOR and how many TD's has he scored, or don't we count that as part of the skills package.
While I agree with the rest of your argument, soul, I will make a comparison in defense of Ric. Let's take Walter Payton for example. Walter Payton averaged 4.4 ypc in his career. Emmitt Smith averaged 4.2 ypc in his career. Jim Brown averaged a whopping 5.2 yards per carry, O.J. Simpson averaged 4.7 ypc, and both Barry Sanders and Gale Sayers averaged 5.0 ypc. Judging by your logic, Walter Payton is not even the best rushing running back of all time. That honor would belong to Jim Brown. In fact, Payton wouldn't even be the second greatest running back in Bears history; that honor would belong to Gale Sayers. Payton averaged more yards per rush than Emmitt Smith, yet Smith rushed for more yards than did Payton. Do you see where this is going? The logic is so circular that it's mind boggling.Quote:
Originally Posted by soulman
I said it before the NFCC game... I want Manningham. He just proved me right
Never said that. He was the "good, not great" one. It could be because he's got crap around him, but still applies. Dane should be the worst WR on our team, like I said, not the 2nd or 3rd best. Knox had one half-way decent season, and was only doing "okay" this year when Hanie was depending on him. Cutler avoided him, for the most part, for good reason. Manningham is not a great improvement over him, but unless Bowe, Welker and V Jackson come cheap, we need to realize we can afford one really good WR, one above average one and still need to draft one. That will give us improvements tremendously. Knox is a horrible route runner, and memory does serve me correct by saying he's never fought off an INT. Hell, even hester spiked one that was going straight for the defender.Quote:
Originally Posted by soulman
VJax
Bennett
Manningham
Floyd
Sanz
would be a vast improvement over the group that took the field this year.
What's mind boggling is all of this debate over a couple #3 wide receivers. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Dagan81