Thread: Do the Bears Want Mario Manningham?................

Originally Posted by Riczaj01

Well Papa, I think that is more of an inditement on Knox, and who poor the WR core is for the Bears then anything. My only real point was, that you don't rely on a guy w/a serious injury to be ready for the season, and therefore don't do anything to strengthen that position.

Ric I'm not against strengthening the position. The obvious need to that is there. If we can get a better deep threat than Knox by all means let's get him but MM ain't that guy. He's not even as good a deep threat as Knox.

As MP is saying here an I've also said it the Bears have horribly misused both Knox and Hester. A receiver Knox size shouldn't be running 7 and 8 yard slants. He should be used to stretch the defense and force a safety out of the box to give a CB support. Knox can and often does run by most CB's and when the ball isn't under thrown he does just fine making the over the shoulder catch. That's exactly how he caught that razzle dazzle punt when Toub set the Packers up with it and it was a TD except for the penalty on Graham.

Does Knox need to do a better job contesting a defender for the ball? Yes. Can he improve his routes? Yes that too but in how many cases is he being asked to run routes he should never be entrusted with in the first place. When the play call is like the one Cutler was injured on it should have been RWill running it and if the lazy bastard could be depended on to catch it he may have been that guy. Get a bigger guy, the right guy running those routes and a lot of the problems attributed to Knox go away. Same with Hester. There is no sane individual who could ever say that Martz didn't totally disregarded the abilities of his players and adjust for that. He didn't and as a result players, including the linemen, were often put in can't win positions.

We can surely go out and find another deep threat but replacing a guy whose had 1700 yards in receptions and averaged better than 19.0 ypc won't be easy but I'd be glad to see a list of prospects. Yes, we do have to gurad against Knox not being able to return as the player he was and that's why we sign a top FA and we bring in other talent either in FA or through the draft but let's not borrow trouble. His doctors say he'll be able to play and he's rehabbing successfully from all that we hear. Let's see how it all works out. There will still be time to pick up help next September when teams make their cuts too and by then we'll know where we stand with Knox. Why push the panic button now?

Originally Posted by MPBears68

I have been critical of Knox too and his shortcomings (above) are plain for all of us to see. I also must admit that, thanks to Martz and a lack of proper alternative options, he has been mis-used for what his size, speed, and abilities bring to the field. It is frustrating cuz when he is (rarely) used properly--as a sideline and deep threat only +/- a returner--he really shows some good flashes. Unfortunately, he is often mis-cast (as is Hester) as an over-the-middle and short-to-medium weapon which he clearly isn't suited for given his lack of size. Both DH and JK are most effective when they can use mismatches and agility/speed to operate in open space rather than when asked to make tough contested catches between the numbers within 25 yards. Bennett is much better at that though he certainly isn't up to the level of what we need in a true #1 go-to WR either.

We clearly need a VJ/Bowe/Colston wideout for that role with Bennett/Knox (assuming he's healthy) sharing duty opposite and Hester/Sanz operating from the slot. If possible, in addition to 2nd-3rd round draft big-WR prospect, grabbing a guy like Cunningham or Kearse or Jordan White around #5 would be a wise investment IMO as depth for Knox if he's not 100% and to possibly backup at PR/KR.

This essentially what I've been saying. Despite almost constant misuse by Martz he's still managed to lead the team in passing yardage and was second in the league in avg. ypc. He's no All Pro but he's not exactly a failure. A year ago he came 40 yards short of a 1000 yard season and folks were still overly critical. This year he gets over 700 yards and missed all or most of three games and did without Cutler and his arm for six games. Without those road blocks he probably gets his 1000 yards or damn close to it again. He also leads the team in KOR average ahead of Hester. I'd say the kid has done pretty well for an undersized 5th round pick. He's certainly been an improvement over Berrian which is who he replaced.

Knox: Ended Cutlers season
Manningham: had a great catch in the NFCC game and a great catch in the SB - as #3 behind Cruz and Nicks

Originally Posted by Riczaj01

While I will not defend anything that Martz did; if all Knox is good for is a deep route, then he's a very limited WR that will be taken out of every game; ask Benard Berrian how only being a deep route guy worked out for him. That in and of itself makes Manningham a better WR; he's able to do more then run outside the 20's.

Hester/Knox both need to be able to work the open field behind the LB's and infront of the DB's between the 25's also. And that is where Knox show's his true weakness. He gets bullied out of his routes, or cannot keep his feet underneith him both these issues cause interceptions. Hester's biggest problem is he's still not able to adjust to the ball while running these routes. Hester is also not a great deep threat for this reason. The ball has to be placed perfectly placed for Hester, and that rarely, if ever will happen on a deep throw. So while both are fast enough to be deep threats, both need to develop further into more then that.

Of course Knox is somewhat limited as a WR but he's far less of a "one trick pony" than Berrian was. And before you get too overly crirtical of "one trick pony" wideouts go back in time and see what Willis Gault was but how effectively the Bears could use him as a decoy to take a safety out of the box. They had to respect his speed in order to prevent the big play and Cutler is a whole lot better at throwing deep than Mac ever was.

Mario Manningham is no less a "one trick pony" because he does his work outside the hashes. If he could go over the middle and do all you think he can then why did Cruz beat him out of his spot and why does Cruz take those plays? You're imagining things about MM that aren't necessarily true. How many of those 39 passes do you think he caught going over the middle? We seem to be the only team with an OC dumb enough to use a 185lb receiver in the land of the giants. You can get beat up pretty badly at that weight when you have 270 lineman hitting you and that's sort of what happened. MM is definitely not an over the middle guy trust me.

The only small guy I see routinely going over the middle is Welker and he's usually running crossing routes in front of the LB's that he takes to the edge or they put him in the slot and let him head downfield. He's not asked to run slants and hooks at 8 to 10 yards as Knox was doing this year. NE throws to their TE's for that but because Martz won't do that then someone has to and in his offense it's the wideout. So you have two guys on the Bears playing that position. One is 6'3" and 215lbs and the other 6' and 185lbs and they both running those plays because that's what Martz does! RWill has the size to do that Knox doesn't but does Martz care? No, all he cares about is running his offense his way no matter how wrong the personnel he has to run it with are. You can't say that isn't so.

Knox shouldn't be running those routes and I'll guarantee you MM isn't because the Giants aren't that dumb. Why send MM in there when you have when you have a couple of 200lb plus guys to do it. I can't remember one play in the SB where MM was thrown to on an inside route. His big catches came downfield and outside the hashes.