Thread: WR Robert Meachem as an opton?

Originally Posted by WindyCity

I agree with your assessment and I would not pass on one of the top 4 OTs in the draft for Michael Floyd.

However we disagree about the DE class as I do not see anyone outside of Quentin Coples that is a clean prospect. I feel the WR and DE classes are very similar as their are major question marks about most of the 1st round talent.

Coples and Ingram look like sure things. In fact Coples looks like he could be a monster. A guy who might actually be worth burning a pick to trade up for. Ingram = Osi = productive pass rusher but not a Peppers ind of player like Coples might turn into.

Upshaw = iffy as a 4-3 DE and Mercilus = speculative as in how good is he really? Unless the combo boosts him up #19 is too high for him.

To be honest I think it may come down to Adams or Ingram at #19 with a small chance that we take a WR but only if we strike out in FA which we shouldn't.

Thanks for the rundown on Meachem Dags. There are risks at every turn when it comes to WR. The only time you really know what you're getting is when a guy has had several great years and he's still in his prime. Trouble is how often do you see those guys on the street?

Let's say a kid gets drafted high and signs a 4 year deal at age 22. He breaks out in his 3rd year so his teams extends his deal for another three or four years and then maybe franchises him. That guy is 29-30 years old by the time he hits FA again. That's VJax or Malcom Floyd.

Or the guy gets a 5 years rookie deal and hit's FA at age 27, still in his prime, but his team franchises him while trying to work out a new deal. That could be Dwayne Bowe. So if he gets franchised once he's 28 when he hits FA and 29 if they do it twice. Or the sign him for another 5 years and he's 32-33 years old next time he hits FA.

Or a guys team can afford to keep him so he hits FA after his first 4 year deal is up at age 24-25. He's the FA prize and gets a big $$$ 5 year deal from the highest bidder. That's Sidney Rice and he'll be 29 going on 30 when that deal is up.

I guess I'm wondering where this supply of top quality 25 year old bunch of FA WR's are??? We don't see many of those because if they're any good or even show the potential of being very good (Sidney Rice) they usually resign with their current teams and unless they fail miserably and get cut, in which case you don't want them anyway, there aren't any to be found. They're all close to 30 before anyone else gets a shot at them and then some just decide to stick with their current team, like Holmes and Moss.

Then you have the problem children who are still a problem even though they've pretty much outlived there usefulness to any team. Those guys are named T.O., C.O., Randy and Plax and the don't have much to offer anymore and in most cases haven't for a few years but you can always pick up a few mil based on some previous reputation for being good and that ones spelled Roy Williams.

So I'm not so sure what's so wrong with Reggie Wayne. He's a few years older than guys who may never see FA until they're his age anyway and, unlike the aforementioned quintet, still plays a pretty good game. You know another thing I get a kick out of Dags. We've got guys who want to draft an underdeveloped, not quite ready for prime time WR with our first pick and then turn his development over to a WR coach who has yet to develop even one and is always first on the coaching bitch list.

Scratchin' my head here trying to find some logic in this approach but somehow it just fails me. Why don't we just forget drafting one and trade Briggs and Urlacher to the Giants for all three of their SB winning WR's straight up. They could all be starters and maybe we'd win a Super Bowl too. We don't need no stinking defense as long as we got WR's.

Originally Posted by Dagan81

I can tell you guys, from personally having watched him play at the University of Tennessee, that Robert Meachem was a stud. He was an All-American, All-SEC, and he set the single-season school record for wide receivers at Tennessee with over 1,260 yards that still stands today. He can do it all. He can go deep, or he can run clean routes, juke a man's jock strap off, catch the ball, and run on to day light. He is one of six Tennessee wide receivers in school history to have over 2,000 yards receiving in his career. That being said, New Orleans has sorely underused him because as I see him, he is at least as talented as Marques Colston, if not more so. He's just two inches shorter.

He could be had relatively cheap because the Saints have low-balled him on his numbers. That being said, I would still like to go after Vincent Jackson simply because we could have two receivers with big-play capability. Having those two speedsters along with Earl Bennett lining up in the slot, and you have yourself one terrific trio of wide receivers. But if going after Jackson is problematic to you guys, I would be totally fine with going after someone like Robert Meachem. He would be a good value for the Bears.

I would caution one thing about Meachem, however. The offensive coordinator at the University of Tennessee at the time he was in school was none other than the man who developed both Peyton and Eli Manning - David Cutcliffe. This may be coincidental, but Coach Cut knew how to bleed a turnip of everything it had, and he always got the best out of his skill position players. We had All-Americans at QB (Heath Shular and Peyton Manning), WR (Carl Pickens, Alvin Harper, Peerless Price, Donte Stallworth, and Robert Meachem), and RB (Jamal Lewis, Travis Henry, and Travis Stephens). That being said, some of these players went on to have great careers as pros, while some were busts. I think the jury is still out on Meachem, as we haven't seen just how effectively he be utlized in the pros as of yet. The reason I caution people on this is because Cutcliffe always got the best out of his athletes; hell, Tennessee won the National Championship in 1998 with Tee Martin as quarterback, a full year after the Vols should have won the title before getting bludgeoned by Nebraska in the Orange Bowl. Tennessee has produced some of the greatest pros ever, but it's also produced some busts. I'm interested in seeing under which catagory Robert Meachem would fit.

I agree 100% Dagan. That's why I hope if they make a play for him they also go after a Jackson or Bowe (my 1st choice). By the way I remember watching all those former Volunteers. I would like to see Tennessee get back to being a contender every year. I think it would be good for college football. Kinda like IU basketball getting back on the map.

Originally Posted by WindyCity

I agree Coples looks like a sure thing and while he does not have an elite burst like Peppers looks like a Justin Tuck type of power rusher.

Ingram, is 6'1" has 30" arms, which is tiny, and disappeared in the Senior Bowl to the point that he was dominated by Mike Adams I do not know if he will play 4-3 DE in the NFL because the tackles are athletic and will just engulf him.

Upshaw, again smaller then you would like and looks stiff.

Mercilus, to me is the riskier pick of all the DEs as I do not see any technique when he plays and he had 1 year of production.

The guy I am intrigued by is Nick Perry from USC as he seems to have the best initial step of anyone in the draft.


Give me Mike Adams over everyone of these guys except for Coples.

Windy, I wish you would check your facts before you post this stuff. This is as bad as saying Reggie Wayne has always been a #2 WR. I didn't watch the Senior Bowl and if we drafted Mike Adams I wouldn't be upset but Ingram got high marks for the week and we need a DE sometime soon. Adams may be another Orlando Pace or he may not. Better a LT than a LG as far as I'm concerned.

This is Ingram's scouting report and it says he has long arms and he measures 6'2" and 276 lbs which makes him bigger than Osi Umenyiora or Cliff Avril. The scouting report has him as one of the best pass rushers in the draft and he ranks just below Coples in the DE rankings. When they measure him at the Combine if his arms are only 30" I'll give you $1000 Bears Bucks if you give me $1000 if they're over that.

MELVIN INGRAM OLB, South Carolina

• 2011 GRADE: 7.0 HT: 6-2 WT: 276
  
• Overview

News & Updates

Jan 31 Why I'm holding my opinion on Bears' Phil Emery

Chicago's new GM will be tested in FA and the draft.




A shorter compact defender with a long set of arms, an explosive pop into contact and the know-how to get after the quarterback in a number of ways. He plays fast in tight quarters and possesses an impressive pass-rushing repertoire. However, he has only average bend sitting into his stance and coiling up, is a bit leggy and doesn't eat up a ton of grass initially off the snap. Despite that, he has the kind of first step burst to at least threaten the corner. He's at his best using his sudden lateral quickness to counter off his speed rush at full speed, extending his arms with a compact club or arm over to get inside on blockers. Ingram is very quick laterally in tight areas, does a nice job dropping his pad level when he feels the edge and has the lower body strength to power through contact. Also, he does a nice job playing with leverage as a pass rusher, extending his arms well into contact, catching blockers off balance and overwhelming blockers with the bull rush. He will line up inside as well and threaten as a one-gap guy. He has a tendency to get upright once he gains a step, but does a nice job slow-playing his rush off the snap and forcing his way up the field.

He does a nice job shedding blocks on the edge in the run game. He'll roll his hips into blocks at times when trying to anchor and at times is slow getting off the football. Awareness is a concern that kept popping up, however, he only started one game and that should improve with more experience. He can be jolted backward on initial contact, but he's so sudden and uses his long arms well to gain leverage on contact. He is violent when asked to shed and can consistently disengage and work his way toward the football. Ingram plays off blocks well on the outside and possesses good range chasing the ball in pursuit with a solid motor. He plays with natural leverage and should be able to mature into a very solid run defender if he gives more attention to technique off the snap.

Impression: He is an impressive pass rusher who can get after the QB in a number of ways. Ingram is raw with his technique and can get better, but his suddenness, length and natural feel for the game makes me think he's one of the draft best senior pass rushers.



Nick Perry is listed as a 3-4 outside LB. Is quite a bit smaller than Ingram and doesn't have the pass rush skills of a guy who can play from a 3 point stance. More of a Clay Matthews type and we don't use strong side rushbackers in our defense.


NICK PERRY OLB, Southern California

• 2011 GRADE: 6.9 J HT: 6-3 WT: 250
• Overview

News & Updates

Jan 30
What I like…

- Displays the ability to coil up into his stance, keep his base under him, back flat and take a positive first step off the football.

- Eats up grass well initially, getting on top of opposing tackles quickly in the pass game.

- Possesses the first step to threaten the edge and demonstrates some savvy to his game setting up his outside speed rush.

- Extends his long arms well into contact and showcases a little know how of when to work the club/chop in order to keep himself clean on the edge. Can be violent on contact.

- Possesses good length for his size, is a long armed kid who maximizes his length well into contact.

- Showcases some natural power when he's trying to turn the corner through contact. Has a stronger lower half, works hard in pursuit and showcases a good motor fighting his way past tackles.

- Does a nice job working the edge and using his length to wrap on the quarterback when closing in pursuit.

- Showcases some suddenness when trying to change directions and keep himself clean toward the corner.

- Has slightly above-average power on his bull rush, extends his inside arm well into contact, can knock opposing tackles off balance and work his legs hard through contact.

- Exhibits better natural anchor strength vs. the run game than given credit for.

- Keeps his pad level down well off the snap, has an explosive first step and a powerful punch on contact.

- Uses his length well to shed on slide down blocks, finds the football well and has some range when asked to close.

- Was productive as a junior finishing with 9.5 sacks and showing well vs. some of the best offensive tackle prospects in the country.

What I don't like…

- Is a slightly tighter pass rusher who struggles to really drop his pad level around the edge, sink his hips and flatten out under tackles.

- Too often is easily pushed past the pocket and eliminated from the play due to higher pad level.

- Isn't real sudden off his speed rush on any type of change of direction move. There isn't a real quick/sudden element to his game back inside.

- Gets upright through contact, doesn't play as strong as he could because of pad level and makes it tough on himself to disengage once a lineman gets their hands on him.

- His pass rushing arsenal is limited, looks more like a one trick pony who is only real confident working the speed rush. Will sprinkle in the bull or the inside rush at times, but doesn't have a "go to" change up.

- Gets upright vs. the run game when trying to play off blocks. Fails to sit into his base and keep his feet under him, allowing lineman to wash him from the play too easily.


Impression: Exhibits the first step to be a threat off the edge, however struggles to drop his pad level when flattening out. Plus, he doesn't have much of a counter to his game at this point. Nevertheless, has some obvious talent and is a guy you would expect to start as a rush backer in a 34 scheme and be a productive threat off the edge.

Originally Posted by WindyCity

I agree Coples looks like a sure thing and while he does not have an elite burst like Peppers looks like a Justin Tuck type of power rusher.

Ingram, is 6'1" has 30" arms, which is tiny, and disappeared in the Senior Bowl to the point that he was dominated by Mike Adams I do not know if he will play 4-3 DE in the NFL because the tackles are athletic and will just engulf him.

Upshaw, again smaller then you would like and looks stiff.

Mercilus, to me is the riskier pick of all the DEs as I do not see any technique when he plays and he had 1 year of production.

The guy I am intrigued by is Nick Perry from USC as he seems to have the best initial step of anyone in the draft.


Give me Mike Adams over everyone of these guys except for Coples.

Windy, I wish you would check your facts before you post this stuff. This is as bad as saying Reggie Wayne has always been a #2 WR. I didn't watch the Senior Bowl and if we drafted Mike Adams I wouldn't be upset but Ingram got high marks for the week and we need a DE sometime soon. Adams may be another Orlando Pace or he may not. Better a LT than a LG as far as I'm concerned.

This is Ingram's scouting report and it says he has long arms and he measures 6'2" and 276 lbs which makes him bigger than Osi Umenyiora or Cliff Avril. The scouting report has him as one of the best pass rushers in the draft and he ranks just below Coples in the DE rankings. When they measure him at the Combine if his arms are only 30" I'll give you $1000 Bears Bucks if you give me $1000 if they're over that.

MELVIN INGRAM OLB, South Carolina

• 2011 GRADE: 7.0 HT: 6-2 WT: 276
  
• Overview

News & Updates

Jan 31 Why I'm holding my opinion on Bears' Phil Emery

Chicago's new GM will be tested in FA and the draft.




A shorter compact defender with a long set of arms, an explosive pop into contact and the know-how to get after the quarterback in a number of ways. He plays fast in tight quarters and possesses an impressive pass-rushing repertoire. However, he has only average bend sitting into his stance and coiling up, is a bit leggy and doesn't eat up a ton of grass initially off the snap. Despite that, he has the kind of first step burst to at least threaten the corner. He's at his best using his sudden lateral quickness to counter off his speed rush at full speed, extending his arms with a compact club or arm over to get inside on blockers. Ingram is very quick laterally in tight areas, does a nice job dropping his pad level when he feels the edge and has the lower body strength to power through contact. Also, he does a nice job playing with leverage as a pass rusher, extending his arms well into contact, catching blockers off balance and overwhelming blockers with the bull rush. He will line up inside as well and threaten as a one-gap guy. He has a tendency to get upright once he gains a step, but does a nice job slow-playing his rush off the snap and forcing his way up the field.

He does a nice job shedding blocks on the edge in the run game. He'll roll his hips into blocks at times when trying to anchor and at times is slow getting off the football. Awareness is a concern that kept popping up, however, he only started one game and that should improve with more experience. He can be jolted backward on initial contact, but he's so sudden and uses his long arms well to gain leverage on contact. He is violent when asked to shed and can consistently disengage and work his way toward the football. Ingram plays off blocks well on the outside and possesses good range chasing the ball in pursuit with a solid motor. He plays with natural leverage and should be able to mature into a very solid run defender if he gives more attention to technique off the snap.

Impression: He is an impressive pass rusher who can get after the QB in a number of ways. Ingram is raw with his technique and can get better, but his suddenness, length and natural feel for the game makes me think he's one of the draft best senior pass rushers.



Nick Perry is listed as a 3-4 outside LB. Is quite a bit smaller than Ingram and doesn't have the pass rush skills of a guy who can play from a 3 point stance. More of a Clay Matthews type and we don't use strong side rushbackers in our defense.


NICK PERRY OLB, Southern California

• 2011 GRADE: 6.9 J HT: 6-3 WT: 250
• Overview

News & Updates

Jan 30
What I like…

- Displays the ability to coil up into his stance, keep his base under him, back flat and take a positive first step off the football.

- Eats up grass well initially, getting on top of opposing tackles quickly in the pass game.

- Possesses the first step to threaten the edge and demonstrates some savvy to his game setting up his outside speed rush.

- Extends his long arms well into contact and showcases a little know how of when to work the club/chop in order to keep himself clean on the edge. Can be violent on contact.

- Possesses good length for his size, is a long armed kid who maximizes his length well into contact.

- Showcases some natural power when he's trying to turn the corner through contact. Has a stronger lower half, works hard in pursuit and showcases a good motor fighting his way past tackles.

- Does a nice job working the edge and using his length to wrap on the quarterback when closing in pursuit.

- Showcases some suddenness when trying to change directions and keep himself clean toward the corner.

- Has slightly above-average power on his bull rush, extends his inside arm well into contact, can knock opposing tackles off balance and work his legs hard through contact.

- Exhibits better natural anchor strength vs. the run game than given credit for.

- Keeps his pad level down well off the snap, has an explosive first step and a powerful punch on contact.

- Uses his length well to shed on slide down blocks, finds the football well and has some range when asked to close.

- Was productive as a junior finishing with 9.5 sacks and showing well vs. some of the best offensive tackle prospects in the country.

What I don't like…

- Is a slightly tighter pass rusher who struggles to really drop his pad level around the edge, sink his hips and flatten out under tackles.

- Too often is easily pushed past the pocket and eliminated from the play due to higher pad level.

- Isn't real sudden off his speed rush on any type of change of direction move. There isn't a real quick/sudden element to his game back inside.

- Gets upright through contact, doesn't play as strong as he could because of pad level and makes it tough on himself to disengage once a lineman gets their hands on him.

- His pass rushing arsenal is limited, looks more like a one trick pony who is only real confident working the speed rush. Will sprinkle in the bull or the inside rush at times, but doesn't have a "go to" change up.

- Gets upright vs. the run game when trying to play off blocks. Fails to sit into his base and keep his feet under him, allowing lineman to wash him from the play too easily.


Impression: Exhibits the first step to be a threat off the edge, however struggles to drop his pad level when flattening out. Plus, he doesn't have much of a counter to his game at this point. Nevertheless, has some obvious talent and is a guy you would expect to start as a rush backer in a 34 scheme and be a productive threat off the edge.

Originally Posted by soulman

Thanks for the rundown on Meachem Dags. There are risks at every turn when it comes to WR. The only time you really know what you're getting is when a guy has had several great years and he's still in his prime. Trouble is how often do you see those guys on the street?

Let's say a kid gets drafted high and signs a 4 year deal at age 22. He breaks out in his 3rd year so his teams extends his deal for another three or four years and then maybe franchises him. That guy is 29-30 years old by the time he hits FA again. That's VJax or Malcom Floyd.

Or the guy gets a 5 years rookie deal and hit's FA at age 27, still in his prime, but his team franchises him while trying to work out a new deal. That could be Dwayne Bowe. So if he gets franchised once he's 28 when he hits FA and 29 if they do it twice. Or the sign him for another 5 years and he's 32-33 years old next time he hits FA.

Or a guys team can afford to keep him so he hits FA after his first 4 year deal is up at age 24-25. He's the FA prize and gets a big $$$ 5 year deal from the highest bidder. That's Sidney Rice and he'll be 29 going on 30 when that deal is up.

I guess I'm wondering where this supply of top quality 25 year old bunch of FA WR's are??? We don't see many of those because if they're any good or even show the potential of being very good (Sidney Rice) they usually resign with their current teams and unless they fail miserably and get cut, in which case you don't want them anyway, there aren't any to be found. They're all close to 30 before anyone else gets a shot at them and then some just decide to stick with their current team, like Holmes and Moss.

Then you have the problem children who are still a problem even though they've pretty much outlived there usefulness to any team. Those guys are named T.O., C.O., Randy and Plax and the don't have much to offer anymore and in most cases haven't for a few years but you can always pick up a few mil based on some previous reputation for being good and that ones spelled Roy Williams.

So I'm not so sure what's so wrong with Reggie Wayne. He's a few years older than guys who may never see FA until they're his age anyway and, unlike the aforementioned quintet, still plays a pretty good game. You know another thing I get a kick out of Dags. We've got guys who want to draft an underdeveloped, not quite ready for prime time WR with our first pick and then turn his development over to a WR coach who has yet to develop even one and is always first on the coaching bitch list.

Scratchin' my head here trying to find some logic in this approach but somehow it just fails me. Why don't we just forget drafting one and trade Briggs and Urlacher to the Giants for all three of their SB winning WR's straight up. They could all be starters and maybe we'd win a Super Bowl too. We don't need no stinking defense as long as we got WR's.

I hear that. You know me, my wish list in the first round of the draft is either a LT or a DE. I'll take whichever I can get, to be truthful with you. That being said, I can't honestly say that I would be that disappointed in taking Reggie Wayne if the price was right. I think the only things I worry about with him are, of course, the age question and, two, the part that he's only 6'0" tall. I'm wanting a guy who is big to compliment him. Thus, the reason why I truthfully don't want Reggie Wayne is because I'm afraid he is going to hold us for ransom in terms of money and the age variable. I would rather get a younger and larger receiver than him if it's at all feasible.

At the same time, I look at Robert Meachem and think, "Jeez, this guy has a world of talent!" He's simply not been given enough opportunities by the Saints to truly be able to shine. He's lived in the shadow of Marques Colston this whole time, and on top of that, he has to compete with Jimmy Graham for possession, which is now a losing battle since Graham is Drew Brees' safety valve. I look at Meachem and think that he could be our ace in the hole, but at the same time, recall that we have Daryl Drake who has never developed shit from the hind end of a mare's ass. That being said, who knows what would happen. He's definitely more talented than any of the receivers that we currently have on our roster.