Thread: Screw The Expensive WR's, Sign These Two And We Improve 100%..........

Originally Posted by WindyCity

Reggie Wayne is going to be 34 and is on the decline. (Look at his stats and show me that decline you're talking about Windy. Where?? Even last year playing without Manning he caught 75 passes for 960 yards. That would have made him our #1 by a long shot. How much better than that might he have done with Cutler?)

Reggie Wayne is going to make 6-7 million a season for 2-3 years. (No way. I'll eat a buzzard for breakfast if Reggie Wayne gets anywhere near that. His last deal only averaged $6.5 mil per year and he got that in 2006 when he was 27 years old and in his prime years. You could probably get him for half that or less but if he does want the kind of money your talking about I'd pass too.)

Reggie Wayne is a stop gap solution as was mentioned and is more liekly to get injured or be ineffective than a 26 year old player. (No question he's a stop gap player but that why we draft a WR who should be ready to break out as Reggie gets ready to hang it up in a couple of years. I don't buy the more likely to be injured at all. Look at his history. He's played and started all 16 games per season ever since he became a starter in 2003! Did you even bother to look at that? If you did how can you even make that assumption. Colston has an injury history but not Reggie Wayne. Ineffective???? There were quite a few 26 year old WR last year that were a hell of a lot more ineffective than Reggie Wayne starting with this weeks poster child, Mario Manningham)

Reggie Wayne is no longer and impact player, in fact he has spent most of his career as a #2 option. (Reggie Wayne has been the Colts #1 WR since 2007 when Marvin Harrison missed 11 games and in 2008 Harrison's last year. Look at his stats if you don't believe me. Come one Windy do some leg work before you say this)

Wayne would be a great pickup if we cannot get some of the other guys mentioned, but he comes with a lot of risk. Sign Wayne and draft someone in the 1st round would be the best option. (If we sign Wayne we won't need to spend a 1st round pick on a WR and even if we don't we shouldn't spend a 1st round pick on one. This draft has good depth at WR and IMO we'd be taking far more risk on an unknown quantity 1st round pick than we would on a guy who has proven himself to be one of the best and most underrated WR's in the NFL. I think I could say with confidence that if Reggie Wayne played for the Bears in 2012 he would be the leading WR on the team. Could you make that same statement about Floyd or Jefferey's with the same degree of confidence?)

It does not matter that the Bears are faced with a myriad of roster problems WR is the #1 and should not get a band aid solition to it.

It is the #1 need but how we fill it is the most important thing. Taking a risk on guys who are considered marginal in their ability to become immediate impact players at WR won't help in 2012 and 2012 is when we need some help. We also need to have somebody coming up the pike to take over that #1 spot which is why we draft that guy now as well and give him a couple of years to adapt to the NFL. Why spend a 1st round pick on a guy who may not start at WR instead of one who can at DE or LT. If the Giants proved anything by winning the SB it was that it was their pass rushers who won it, not their WR's.

What I get a kick out of is how many guys talked about signing T.O., C.O., Randy Moss or Plaxico Burress and yet those guys are older than Reggie Wayne and far less productive to boot. How can you be in favor of pursuing those guys but turn your back on one whose been better and more consistent over the past three years than all of them put together.

Everyone has stars in their eyes for signing that big time FA wideout and we'll spend big time $$$ to get him and maybe at the expense of other positions which also need attention if we're gonna compete for a champioship. Why not ask Seattle how that worked out for them last year picking up Sidney Rice? He was last years VJax wasn't he?

I'm sorry guys but I'm laying out some facts here and I'm getting assumptions and suppositions in return. I'm all in favor of getting Dwayne Bowe IF he gets out of KC and IF we don't have to break the back to get him but I'm not counting on it. Call my approach plan B if you like but the facts speak for themselves as far as the performance of these two guys are concerned and I'm not getting facts in return.


Papa Bear posted this thread earlier today. Look at your post Henry. Wayne is first on your list. Now go look at your post in this thread where you say you don't want these guys because they could flop just like a first round WR could. Yeah they might but the big difference is they haven't so I'd say the odds of getting a good return on these investments is far greater than an unproven rookie. You gotta admit that's a pretty lame excuse man.


Are any of the WR retreads worth a look?

This just another excercise in the age old game of "don't confuse me with facts, my mind is made up".

Whatever Phil Emery decides is good for the Bears is fine with me. He's got the authority and the checkbook. I'm just a fan.

WR IS NOT THE NUMBER ONE AREA OF NEED ON THIS OFFENSE OR FOR THE TEAM FOR THAT MATTER!!!

LT is. If we don't have someone to protect Cutler's blindside, how the fuck do you expect him to get the ball out to his receivers? Do you want him to get killed in the process?

DE is at least as big a need as WR. We have one two-thirds of our pass rush unit working to efficiency, and even they are not producing as much as Marinelli and Lovie would like simply because LE isn't producing enough sacks. Either sign Mario Williams, Cliff Avril, or draft a DE in the first round, but do something or else we may wind up giving up 300 yards passing this coming year.

Originally Posted by WindyCity

Why don't we band aid the DE position, where we already have an All-Pro, and sign Robert Mathis while we develop a 3rd round pick DE?

This team will only go as far as Cutler takes them and we need to be more serious about giving him weapons than a 34 year old WR and a 3rd round pick.

Wayne would be great as a #2 guy for a couple of seasons, but we still need someone to be the #1 guy.

Fine with me since I'd pursue Mathis anyway unless somehow Emery thinks he can pull off another blockbuster and get Mario Williams. And I guess the other reason is that you seldom find top notch, road ready pass rushers in the third round and after. Should we draft another great athletic washout like Jarron Gilbert or a Corey Wootton who was injured when he was drafted and hasn't been able to stay healthy since?

The reports I've read on some of the 2nd tier DE all say they've got some devloping to do before they become NFL level pass rushers. I think we need a guy who can come in and has a chance to put up 10 sacks this year and I don't see those guys in the third round. But I do see WR who can be developed into potential #1 WR's in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

Look the post I put up on the deepest positions in the draft. WR is one of them but DE is not. So that tells me I should look for my pass rusher early since there isn't likely to be enough to go around. That's my approach Windy and it may not be yours but the Giants won with All Pro pass rushers not All Pro receivers.

And quit saying Wayne is a #2 WR when he's been the Colts top wideout since 2007. He's better than anyone we've got and he's far more likely to stay a #1 than a guy like Robert Meachem is to become one. If we signed Reggie Wayne and drafted Floyd or Jefferey's like you want Wayne would still be the #1 WR in 2012 and probably in 2013 as well.

This is starting to get hilarious. Fucking hilarious! Everyone is arguing, no one can come to a consensus on anything, and it's just funny.

Originally Posted by motownbear

we have used this method over and over again during JA tenure and hasnt worked. We always settled on retread bandaids or a bunch of number two and three wrs and got us no where on offense. Why are we so scared of building a legit NFL offense?

the rules help out the offense there is no reason why we shouldnt have one and take advantage of that fact

Building one is exactly what we need to do but building means it won't be done tomorrow. One draft isn't gonna fill the holes and make us magically younger at DE and LB mo. The whole reason Emery got the job over anyone else was because he was the guy with the best skills to develop from that draft. Far cheaper and as you point far more long lasting.

But remember we got guys like Urlacher and Tillman and Hester and Briggs and Forte following losing years when we drafted higher and we got them over a period of years. There were no trade Herschel Walker for an entire team kind of drafts like the Cowboys got healthy with and two of our best players came from FA and a very costly trade.

The problem with JA was his half assed measures. It wasn't so much that he did nothing. His problem was he didn't do enough. Trading for Cutler without a line to protect him or receivers to throw to is probably the best example. The trade was great but not talking care of the rest was stupid. We pay a small fortune to get Pep and then get no one to help out expecting him to be the end all and he damn near is some games.

We need youth, we need better talent, we need better depth and we need most of that now if we're gonna make a run for a championship. We can't get that done without some stop gap measures. Guys like Reggis Wayne and Robert Mathis are stop gap solutions until we develop or can afford better ones. If they were second rate slouches I'd agree that we don't need guys like that but both were still very productive on a really shitty hopeless team who lost damn near every game they played.

Is it impossible to believe that those guys couldn't be rejuvenated playing on a team with SB possibilities to finish out the last couple of years of their careers. This isn't Pace or Archuleta were talking about or even Moose Muhammed. Wayne and Mathis are still at or near the top of their game.

Like I said to Windy even if we drafted Michael Floyd in addition to signing Reggie Wayne, Wayne would still be the Bears #1 WR. He's that much better than anyone we have now. We've got some cap $$$ to spend but after we re-sign Forte and a few of our own how many VJax or DBowe's or Cliff Avril's or Mario Williams can we afford? Emery can't fix it all at once that way. We have to get the best bang for the buck now and draft well for a few years.

Hell Donald Driver was still hauling in 70-80 passes for 1100-1200 yards a year until he was 35. Why can't Reggie Wayne do the same?

Originally Posted by Dagan81

This is starting to get hilarious. Fucking hilarious! Everyone is arguing, no one can come to a consensus on anything, and it's just funny.

It's not an argument. We all have some very definite ideas of how we'd go about solving problems and that's what were airing out. When have you ever known me to shy away from a debate? Life would be really f'n boring around here if we all agreed on everything. Put up a post, four other guys go yup, yup that's what I'd do to and that makes up the majority of what we do??? HELL NO! We need a little controversy to keep things going. LOL

All I'm saying is the facts simply don't seem to indicate that Wayne is over the hill or that Eddie Royal could be a failure. In fact I'd say that it's just the opposite so naturally when someone simply picks something out of mid-air like Reggie Wayne, who hasn't missed a game since before my hair got grey, is more likely to get injured than Marques Colston who has missed games I have to wonder were the logic is in that.

Well there isn't. Actually at the risk of being stoned I'll quote from the wisdom of Jerry Angelo. I'm suggesting solutions where other are suggesting problems. Or a Kennedyesque paraphrase "some people see things as they are and ask why, I dream of things that aren't and ask why not". So I just tossed out a few why nots.

Just saying it won't work without at least considering factors that may just boils down to that "don't confuse me with facts, my minds is made up" way of processing things. Bottom line is I really can't see where the facts don't at least give it a chance of working.

It's 2:00AM and I was just about ready to fall asleep when I sat bolt upright in bed with this brilliant plan.

Forget all about getting WR's in FA. Lets' just spend our first and second round picks on the two best young WR's we can find. Trade one of thirds to move up if we have to. No 30 year old plus retreads for us. Two young, fast, or not so fast, tall or not so tall, 220lb or less, guys who we can develop into the best WR tandem in the NFL. Jay deserves as much doesn't he.

Now these guys won't be quite ready to take over starting positions just yet so we keep using the guys we have and maybe even keep RWill around for another year to help mentor the new guys. Hester still stays #1 for another year and we keep Bennett in the slot and limit his snaps to third and long only. Knox can play with the back brace if it doesn't slow him down too much and we buy Sanz a big jar of stickum and he'll be ok. We can probably forget about Hurd though. He's doing a screen test to appear in the next remake of The Longest Yard.

So we take these two future All Pros and we turn them over to our expert receivers coach Darryl Drake to develop into the HOF'ers that with his steady hand and incredible coaching skills we know they can become. The same Coach Darryl Drake who has developed so many other All Pro wide receivers. Guys like.....................................

Or maybe we should wait until we get a coach who actually has developed WR's before we go and draft even more of them he can't seem to develop. Ah well, maybe it wasn't such a brilliant thought after all.

I see where you're coming from and think Wayne would be a good fit and can save some cash to get a much needed DE in FA. I've got no doubt he can keep playing til he's 35 BUT what everyone here is really hoping for is a big physical WR that can go up and get it or someone that can really stretch the field.

If the Bears could snag a better LT then Cutler wouldn't need a 6'4 monster receiver. He has the accuracy to hit precision route runners like Wayne if he has the time to throw. I don't mind your idea...either way in my opinion the Bears MUST sign a FA young #1 WR OR a great pass rusher (Williams, Avril). I didn't like the idea of going LT in the 1st round at our position but now I'm starting to think it's a must.

Anyway there are 2 directions we could possibly go:
Scenario 1 FREE AGENCY:
DE Mario Williams
WR Reggie Wayne

DRAFT: 1. OT Mike Adams/CB Dre Kirkpatrick
2. WR Reuben Randle
3. CB/LB????
3. BPA

If we went CB in the first in this situation would make the defence into a real monster. Imagine Peppers and Williams rushing with Tillman, Kirkpatrick at CB and DJ Moore in at NB. We don't want to waste Jay but with a defense like that, coupled with our tough running game it could be a recipe for success. Cutler will have a better choice of weapons than last season and the strength of the running game will open up opportunities for PA and bootlegs.

If we were to go OT in the 1st and that OT made an impact from day 1 coupled with an improvement at WR from FA, the offense would become a whole lot more consistent and reliable. Add a quality 2nd round WR to be our #3 and develop into a number 1 WR who can be Cutler's go-to-guy for the next 5 years. Even without a 1st round CB (say we keep Bowman as a starter or pick a good guy up in round 3) Super Mario would instantly make a huge impact on the defense. I can see Bowman having a ballhawk season behind Peppers and Mario like Cromartie did when Merriman was at his peak with the Chargers.

Scenario 2
FREE AGENCY:
WR Vincent Jackson
WR Robert Meacham
1. DE Melvin Ingram
2. CB ???
3. TE Orson Charles
3. WR Stephen Hill

While Scenario 2 leaves us with Webb at LT and hoping that our 1st round DE works out and can make an impact day dot, we get some huge playmakers on offense. Having a weapon like Charles at TE adds another dimension to the offense, however his blocking skills definitely need some work. I could also see us getting DE Robert Mathis which would let us go BPA in the 1st but DE is a position we really need to shore up long-term and there's great talent in the 1st round.

Regardless of what is going on with the defense the offense is a damaged mess. Your suggestion of royal and Wayne is a bandaid that fixes nothing totally ja style you know the guy we wanted gone.

If we went the route of no number one wr I would rather sign garçon and draft wright. At least that combo with benett has potential upside. Wayne and royal will get us no where but sos