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Originally Posted by
Riczaj01
Valid, but most trade up speculation has been about getting into around that spot; and I see no need for it, We really need about 2-3 players out of the 1st four we have, if not all 4. I sure to hell wouldn't trade next year's 1st or 2nd. This team has a severe lack of depth, and that has to be corrected through the draft. I'd rather stand pat and take bpa. While OT is definately a huge need, I'm not sure I would put it head and shoulders over the need of a combo of DE + DB or DE + WR.
I'm with you on this one Ric. We have 4 picks in the top in the top 100 players which to me says we can come out of this draft with at least two 2012 starters and two future starters. To give even one of those picks up it would have to be for the bluest of blue chippers. I don't see guys at the back end of the first round being of that type. For instance, is Sanu all that much better a pick than McNutt, Toon, or Marvin Jones? Even Mercilus has some question marks surrounding him but if he fell in the second I would be averse to trading a 4th to move up for him like we did with Paea last year.
There are a couple of LT who I can see still on the board at #19 what I don't see is Coples being there. If the guy truly is a second coming of Pep and we could trade up for a guy like that then I migh do it but other wise no. Whether it's picks in the draft or cap dollars in FA there's always a limit to how much value you get out of certain moves.
Pep was a huge value gain as was the trade for Cutler but if we can't swing those kind of deals I'm against it.
I'm getting to that age where a lifetime warranty just doesn't mean as much to me anymore as an afternoon nap.
Honey Badger Don't Care. Honey Badger Don't Give a Shit.
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Originally Posted by
WindyCity
Merriweather and Williams signed 1 year deals and will provide no cap relief this season.
Spaeth saves us about 1.7 million is we cut him.
I think Lance might be worth a 3rd round pick but I doubt he and a 2nd get us anywhere near a 1st round pick his age and salary are trade killers.
Thanks for the cap info and much appreciated. I stand corrected...bummer. Spaeth still should go to save the $1.7M IMO. I don't see that he adds anything esp after whiffing on that block that got Forte knee-capped.
And if Briggs is worth nothing more than a 3rd, then he best STFU about his contract because there's no way he should be going anywhere for that.
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Hypothetical scenario #264
Let's say...
A) FA goes pretty much as Windy mocked it here and
B) The current top 2 pure DE's (Couples & Ingram) are gone by #19 and
C) The current top 4 OT's (Kalil, Reiff, Martin, & Adams) are also gone
...would you trade down the #19 for Denver's #25 and an extra 3rd (#88)?
[Yes, there is a reason I'm asking this (besides channelling the ghost of JA) and it's very possible we could be facing this exact situation.]
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Originally Posted by
WindyCity
Merriweather and Williams signed 1 year deals and will provide no cap relief this season.
Spaeth saves us about 1.7 million is we cut him.
I think Lance might be worth a 3rd round pick but I doubt he and a 2nd get us anywhere near a 1st round pick his age and salary are trade killers.
Spot on as far as Worthless #1 and Worthless #2 are concerned. We have no 2012 cap dollars committed to RWill or Meriweather. All we can say is it's $5 mil we don't have to spend on them and never should have to begin with.
Lance Briggs is worth far more than a 3rd round pick to us and I'd never let him go for that. If Emery even gives him a green light to go shopping for a new team I'd put no less than a high second or low first price tag on it. We'd need that to replace him and even then chances of getting a player of the same caliber is unlikely. To me it makes more sense to add another year to his deal and hand him a couple of mil in bonus money now just to keep the peace.
Spaeth should be on the bubble in camp. If Andre Smith can beat him out we'll save about $1.3 mil and I would do that in a NY minute just to get some breathing space for potential injury replacement dollars. Spaeth is a good blocker but $1.7 mil is too much for a one dimensional TE who isn't of all that much use in Tice's offense.
I'm getting to that age where a lifetime warranty just doesn't mean as much to me anymore as an afternoon nap.
Honey Badger Don't Care. Honey Badger Don't Give a Shit.
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Originally Posted by
soulman
Spot on as far as Worthless #1 and Worthless #2 are concerned. We have no 2012 cap dollars committed to RWill or Meriweather. All we can say is it's $5 mil we don't have to spend on them and never should have to begin with.
Lance Briggs is worth far more than a 3rd round pick to us and I'd never let him go for that. If Emery even gives him a green light to go shopping for a new team I'd put no less than a high second or low first price tag on it. We'd need that to replace him and even then chances of getting a player of the same caliber is unlikely. To me it makes more sense to add another year to his deal and hand him a couple of mil in bonus money now just to keep the peace.
Spaeth should be on the bubble in camp. If Andre Smith can beat him out we'll save about $1.3 mil and I would do that in a NY minute just to get some breathing space for potential injury replacement dollars. Spaeth is a good blocker but $1.7 mil is too much for a one dimensional TE who isn't of all that much use in Tice's offense.
Replacing Briggs' immediate impact would take Zach Brown, IMHO, and that's a first round pick. He may not hold high value league-wide, but he is hugely important to us.
Agree with every single word here. Spaeth is a nice player, but we have a guy in Davis who proved much more dynamic in his limited use. I would have no problem cutting him outright tomorrow if we re-sign Kellen because I'm that sure of Andre's abilities.
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Originally Posted by
lklrlolnlilklsox
Replacing Briggs' immediate impact would take Zach Brown, IMHO, and that's a first round pick. He may not hold high value league-wide, but he is hugely important to us.
Agree with every single word here. Spaeth is a nice player, but we have a guy in Davis who proved much more dynamic in his limited use. I would have no problem cutting him outright tomorrow if we re-sign Kellen because I'm that sure of Andre's abilities.
That's the key sox. To other teams Briggs may seem like a "system play" and he may well be but in "our system" he's the perfect guy at the perfect position. So far he shows no signs of slowing down and I think he'll continue to play at his current level for at least another two years and maybe three. If we toss him a $3 mil SB and extend his deal a year it only costs us $1 mil per year against that cap. In the bigger picture that's chump change.
We don't have to do it but it may be one of those "good faith" or appreciation things that you get more mileage out of than it costs to do it. This way he'll average about $6.5 mil over the next three years. IMO that's fair.
I'm getting to that age where a lifetime warranty just doesn't mean as much to me anymore as an afternoon nap.
Honey Badger Don't Care. Honey Badger Don't Give a Shit.
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I've been thinking about the whole Lance Briggs thing and I believe Emery should approach it this way. "Lance, if you think your perenial Pro-Bowl play deserves additional money to the contract that YOU agreed to, the bulk of which you have ALREADY been paid, then you should be worth at least a second round pick, right? So here's the deal, you and your "Show me the money" agent go find a team that is willing to renegotiate your deal, and if they are willing to pony up a late first or early 2nd round pick, then we will trade you and you can get your additional pay day from them; if they only offer a late second, then we will consider giving you a bump on a single year extension; however, if you can only come up with a third, then shut up and play because the market value for your services are not what YOU think they are."
If someone else is willing, then his market value is proven to us, but I don't think we should sign Forte for a substantial sum and then cave to Lance too. At that point, Emery is also setting a dangerous and potentially costly president for every other guy wanting a raise in mid contract. Frankly, we fans sometimes undervalue and over value certain players when it comes to trades, but Briggs is a seldom injured Pro-Bowl LB with outstaqnding experience, but plays in a system designed to inflate his productivity. He is very good for our system, and he has been handsomely rewarded for his efforts, but if someone is willing to pay a second for him, then I would probably do it, but nothing lower. There ARE teams that given the right circumstance, could be willing to surrender a late 1st for the guy, but they are few and far between.
The Greatest form of revenge is MASSIVE success.
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Lance Briggs would be more valuable to the Bears packaged in a deal for some draft picks in my estimation than he would be as an actual player on the team. He needs to go because he's getting too old and too greedy to play for us. I know that there are going to be some naysayers that come out of the wood works and tell me that I'm crazy (I am bipolar, after all), but that's the business of football. His play declined last year, yet he wants more money. I cannot justify that logically.
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Originally Posted by
MPBears68
Hypothetical scenario #264
Let's say...
A) FA goes pretty much as Windy mocked it here and
B) The current top 2 pure DE's (Couples & Ingram) are gone by #19 and
C) The current top 4 OT's (Kalil, Reiff, Martin, & Adams) are also gone
...would you trade down the #19 for Denver's #25 and an extra 3rd (#88)?
[Yes, there is a reason I'm asking this (besides channelling the ghost of JA) and it's very possible we could be facing this exact situation.]
Maybe, but it depends on if we can get a solid DB or WR there that we couldn't get at 25. Again, It's not just WR, DE, OT that we need help with. This team needs a lot of help top to bottom to get it's talent back to where it needs to be to compete w/Det and GB in this div. Even if we did get a CB and 2 WR's, this team needs to start creating competition from the top down, and stop w/the bottom up competition. If that means 4 spots and 6 wr's, tough for the established starters. God knows 1 CB isn't going to do that for us either.
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Originally Posted by
MPBears68
Hypothetical scenario #264
Let's say...
A) FA goes pretty much as Windy mocked it here and
B) The current top 2 pure DE's (Couples & Ingram) are gone by #19 and
C) The current top 4 OT's (Kalil, Reiff, Martin, & Adams) are also gone
...would you trade down the #19 for Denver's #25 and an extra 3rd (#88)?
[Yes, there is a reason I'm asking this (besides channelling the ghost of JA) and it's very possible we could be facing this exact situation.]
If I do not like the WR talent at all I trade down in a heart beat.
At 25 we may be taking and OG or TE as the Best Player Available, but give me the best OG or TE in the draft over the 4th best DE, OT or WR.
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