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In that case. Re-sign Forte tomorrow and give me VJax, Mario Williams and Brandon Carr in March!
In that case. Re-sign Forte tomorrow and give me VJax, Mario Williams and Brandon Carr in March!
Love it but that would take some real cap creativity to get those deals to fit under the cap. I'd settle for Williams alone if we could get him and then Carr. I'll leave VJax for last so I can see what the market dictates.Originally Posted by lklrlolnlilklsox
I'm getting to that age where a lifetime warranty just doesn't mean as much to me anymore as an afternoon nap.
Honey Badger Don't Care. Honey Badger Don't Give a Shit.
Well if $$$ is not an issue to the extent the cap permits this is what ESPN's Kevin Seifert has to report regarding the Lions odds of holding on to Cliff Avril. The Lions are hard against the cap and would need to clear about $11 mil in salaries in order to franchise him. That's some pretty significant cutting between now and three weeks from now.
So if Avril does hit FA what would his costs be? I took the opportunity to highlight the deal Charles Johnson got from NO last year and I consider Johnson to be about the same level pass rusher as Avril. His deal was for $72 mil with $30 mil guaranteed. We can probably assume players like Avril and Williams can command similar deals.
The costs of signing these guys in their prime as FA is astronomical as we already found out with Pep. This one of the big reasons why I would spend that first pick on a guy like Melvin Ingram. He's productive, has size, good quickness and no real "football" character issues as Emery described them. If we toss the names, Adams, Glenn, Floyd and Ingram into a hat I would say that Ingram represents the lowest risk of failure and the best value at #19.
Franchise focus: Cliff Avril
February, 16, 2012 Feb 16
11:00
AM ET
By Kevin Seifert
Another in a daily series on NFC North players who are candidates to receive their team's franchise tag. The window for tagging players opens Monday and closes March 5.
[+] Enlarge
Mike Carter/US PresswireDetroit defensive end Cliff Avril, a potential free agent, had 11 sacks last season.
The future of Detroit Lions defensive end Cliff Avril remains one of the Big Decisions we identified last month for NFC North teams. Avril and the Lions find themselves in a vortex of variables: He will be a free agent after a career season at a premium position for a team pushed tight against the salary cap. Can the Lions afford to keep a homegrown talent who totaled 11 sacks and forced six fumbles last season?
Earlier in this Franchise Focus series, we noted the allure of the tag for the Green Bay Packers, who could lock up tight end Jermichael Finley for around $5.5 million, and the Chicago Bears, who could retain tailback Matt Forte for about $7.7 million. In Avril's case, however, the franchise tag would be an inefficient and costly tool in the short term.
The NFL has not released its official franchise numbers for 2012, but writing for Football Outsiders, Brian McIntyre has projected it to be about $11 million for defensive ends. At last check, the Lions were slightly over the projected NFL cap limit of $120 million, meaning they would have to clear (or create) $11 million in space prior to placing the tag on Avril.
That would be a difficult task for a team with deep cap issues and a number of equally important priorities. Of course, the alternative is signing Avril to a long-term extension that would require a significantly higher cash commitment but could be written to maintain a lower first-year cap total.
Two recent deals, both of which average about $12 million per season, provide context for the type of deal Avril could receive. Kansas City Chiefs linebacker Tamba Hali is playing under a five-year, $60 million deal that includes $35 million in guarantees, while Carolina Panthers defensive end Charles Johnson signed a six-year, $72 million contract last summer with $30 million guaranteed.
As we noted last month, Johnson's deal counted about $10 million against the cap in 2011, and his cap numbers will fluctuate between $11 million and $16 million throughout the deal.
Considered together, these numbers illustrate why it is going to be a difficult task for the Lions to bring Avril back. The Lions could artificially lower his first-year cap number in a long-term deal, but eventually they would have to pay for it. Pass-rushers almost always get paid, one way or the other, and Avril will be no different.
I'm getting to that age where a lifetime warranty just doesn't mean as much to me anymore as an afternoon nap.
Honey Badger Don't Care. Honey Badger Don't Give a Shit.
Peppers-Paea-Melton-Avril
Wooton-Toe-Adams-drafted guy
I take that for sure. Would suck to lose Izzy, but we would need the Cap Space for Avril
I would love to get Cliff Avril and would pay handsomely to do so.Well if $$$ is not an issue to the extent the cap permits this is what ESPN's Kevin Seifert has to report regarding the Lions odds of holding on to Cliff Avril. The Lions are hard against the cap and would need to clear about $11 mil in salaries in order to franchise him. That's some pretty significant cutting between now and three weeks from now.
So if Avril does hit FA what would his costs be? I took the opportunity to highlight the deal Charles Johnson got from NO last year and I consider Johnson to be about the same level pass rusher as Avril. His deal was for $72 mil with $30 mil guaranteed. We can probably assume players like Avril and Williams can command similar deals.
The costs of signing these guys in their prime as FA is astronomical as we already found out with Pep. This one of the big reasons why I would spend that first pick on a guy like Melvin Ingram. He's productive, has size, good quickness and no real "football" character issues as Emery described them. If we toss the names, Adams, Glenn, Floyd and Ingram into a hat I would say that Ingram represents the lowest risk of failure and the best value at #19.
Franchise focus: Cliff Avril
February, 16, 2012 Feb 16
11:00
AM ET
By Kevin Seifert
Another in a daily series on NFC North players who are candidates to receive their team's franchise tag. The window for tagging players opens Monday and closes March 5.
[+] Enlarge
The future of Detroit Lions defensive end Cliff Avril remains one of the Big Decisions we identified last month for NFC North teams. Avril and the Lions find themselves in a vortex of variables: He will be a free agent after a career season at a premium position for a team pushed tight against the salary cap. Can the Lions afford to keep a homegrown talent who totaled 11 sacks and forced six fumbles last season?
Earlier in this Franchise Focus series, we noted the allure of the tag for the Green Bay Packers, who could lock up tight end Jermichael Finley for around $5.5 million, and the Chicago Bears, who could retain tailback Matt Forte for about $7.7 million. In Avril's case, however, the franchise tag would be an inefficient and costly tool in the short term.
The NFL has not released its official franchise numbers for 2012, but writing for Football Outsiders, Brian McIntyre has projected it to be about $11 million for defensive ends. At last check, the Lions were slightly over the projected NFL cap limit of $120 million, meaning they would have to clear (or create) $11 million in space prior to placing the tag on Avril.
That would be a difficult task for a team with deep cap issues and a number of equally important priorities. Of course, the alternative is signing Avril to a long-term extension that would require a significantly higher cash commitment but could be written to maintain a lower first-year cap total.
Two recent deals, both of which average about $12 million per season, provide context for the type of deal Avril could receive. Kansas City Chiefs linebacker Tamba Hali is playing under a five-year, $60 million deal that includes $35 million in guarantees, while Carolina Panthers defensive end Charles Johnson signed a six-year, $72 million contract last summer with $30 million guaranteed.
As we noted last month, Johnson's deal counted about $10 million against the cap in 2011, and his cap numbers will fluctuate between $11 million and $16 million throughout the deal.
Considered together, these numbers illustrate why it is going to be a difficult task for the Lions to bring Avril back. The Lions could artificially lower his first-year cap number in a long-term deal, but eventually they would have to pay for it. Pass-rushers almost always get paid, one way or the other, and Avril will be no different.
Not only would this add to our pass rush and give us a 26 year old star DE, but it would screw the Lions in the process.
Windy, love mulling over your mocks even when you go a different direction than I prefer. When you get a minute, could you put together an "Avril-as-a-Bear offseason mock" please? I would assume that the cap restrictions therein would preclude Colston and Carr. Would this be feasible?
FA
Avril (DE)
Meacham or Wayne (WR)
Terrell Thomas (CB)
Draft
1. Adams (OT)
2. McNutt (WR)
3a. CB or S
3b. Cole (LB)
4. CB or S
5-7. BPAs
I find Avril to be incredibly overrated and think spending big money on him would be a big mistake.
Based on what I think the free agents listed are going to get we could not afford them
Avril [9-10 million]
Meachem [4-6 million]
Thomas [5-6 million]
Thanks, that's what I feared. We definitely need to address WR and a DB in FA so that takes Avril out of consideration IMO even if he's available and even if he's "worth the money".
The sad thing is that we could go out and sign a whole armada full of FAs and we could go out and lose our shirts, thus costing Lovie Smith his job in the process and making Emery look really, really bad.
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