Thread: Dre Kirkpatrick

Originally Posted by WindyCity

The problem is that CBs for the Cover 2 teams do not usually go in the 1st round.

Talented kid yes, but the CB is not asked to do nearly as much in the Cover 2 and safety is actually a more valuable position.

I'd say all of the DB positions are important in this offense. There's no doubt in my mind that Kirkpatrick is a 1st round pick in the top 20. The only way he could possibly fall from there is if he ran poorly at the Combine and his Pro Day and I don't see that happening. All of these guys who depend on speed spend time enhancing that for the combine and will probably run better than they did in college. It probably won't matter anyway because it's unlikely he'd get by the Cowboys pick.

Originally Posted by lklrlolnlilklsox

I honestly could care less what these sites have him marked down at. I saw him run shoulder-to-shoulder all game with Rueben Randle who has some of the best deep strides in this class, as well as the uber-speedy Razorbacks 1-2 punch of Jarius Wright and Joe Adams. He plays fast, period, and much like Brandon Flowers (who you may recall me loving coming out), the tape wins in this case, regardless. That's how much I like his tape.

It's not a big deal and we both know that there's a big difference between track speed and playing speed. A 4.5 is fast enough. I'm not gonna put these sites down for their info though. Not when they've got all these measurables on hundreds of guys. They must have come from somewhere and some of them must be accurate.

Since we were discussing on another topic thread about 40 times how about a sustainable speed metric. Where your able to hold a 4.4 or 4.5 in a cover position relative to the area of the field. A guy blows his wad to get a 4.4 and runs 4.8 next few times. Endurable speed vs. straight line track speed perhaps.

I think they have them run it just twice at the Combine then take the average of those two. Sox has a point about seeing is believing but not all of us can watch as much college ball as he does. The way I see it is that it's all relative to one another. I should be able to compare two times and know which one may have an edge but to be honest I don't know how .2 difference relates on the field as far as coverage for a DB or separation for a WR. I tend to go by what Matt Bowen is saying about CB and WR being stopwatch position where your 40 time is far more important than at other positions.

Originally Posted by soulman

I think they have them run it just twice at the Combine then take the average of those two. Sox has a point about seeing is believing but not all of us can watch as much college ball as he does. The way I see it is that it's all relative to one another. I should be able to compare two times and know which one may have an edge but to be honest I don't know how .2 difference relates on the field as far as coverage for a DB or separation for a WR. I tend to go by what Matt Bowen is saying about CB and WR being stopwatch position where your 40 time is far more important than at other positions.

About 10 years or so ago there was a short film depicting what the difference is in a 4.3 vs a 4.5. After 20 yards you could see the separation. Then they showed Willie Gault literally "de-framing" the camera as you could really see the difference in speed values. Again that is relatively straight line though.

Originally Posted by short faced bear

About 10 years or so ago there was a short film depicting what the difference is in a 4.3 vs a 4.5. After 20 yards you could see the separation. Then they showed Willie Gault literally "de-framing" the camera as you could really see the difference in speed values. Again that is relatively straight line though.

And part of it is where that speed is stored so to speak. Is the guy quick of the mark and in two strides at full speed or is he a guy that gets progressively faster as he runs. Does he need to slow into his breaks or can he cut at full speed. There are a lot of variables. Some can be coached up some can't. A guy can improve his routes, his cuts and his hands but raw speed is just that.

For what we need a 4.3 guys isn't all that necessary. Knox and Hester have the kind of speed to stretch defenses. We have more of a need for guy who can get separation quickly and run 10-15 yard routes well if we stay with what we have as a core and just add one guy. But if we can sign a guy like Royal who is good on the shorter routes and pair him with a guy like Meachem who has size and speed and Bennett at Flanker we upgrade the passing game significantly without needing a VJax, DJax or a Bowe.

The key to this WR thing is what we can accomplish in FA. To me that's the only place we can get immediate help to upgrade. We can live with the Oline if we use shorter drops and guys can get just a little bit of separation. Cutler is one of those few QB's who has the arm strength an accuracy to thread the needle. He just needs some protection for 3-4 sec. and guys who can get open and hold on to the damn ball.

Originally Posted by okay

Who says the Bears are going to stick with the Cover 2 forever? This could be Lovie's last season in Chicago and Emery is the one that calls the shots, not Lovie. If the BPA was a CB I wouldn't be surprised if Emery took him. And it's not like we run Cover 2 90% of the time.

Having good safetys is definitely more important in the Cover 2 but the Bears have been looking for a good safety the last 5 seasons.

Of course no typical Cover 2 CBs who are short and slow but can tackle and good in zone go in the 1st round. But no one's saying the Bears should pick a "cover 2 CB" in the 1st.

Good points okay and couple that with the thoughts that Kirkpatrick's strength is playing in a zone defense. He's not the typical cover corner. There are no SS worth drafting where we pick and if Kirkpatrick was the top pick on your board he'd be hard to ignore. We'd be looking at a younger version of Peanut. The kid can cover, plays the ball well and he's a tackling machine which a zone CB has to be.

All of this comes down to what we have left over to accomplish out of the draft after we get through plugging some holes in FA. I'd much rather see us taking a sure winner anywhere we can use him than reach for a guy based on the position he plays. Hopefully Emery drafts this way. The only drawback as far as Kirkpatrick is concerned is whether or not he last that long. At this point in time I'd say it's doubtful but it sure would be nice to have a choice to make with him in it.