Thread: Current OL Analysis & Offseason Implications

I am hoping on the Brandon Washington [Miami] bandwagon he reminds me of a shorter Orlando Franklin from last season. He is strong, physical and nasty, but has limited feet.

Surprising athletic ability I saw him on a couple of Lamar Miller highlight tapes out in front of screen passes making some gorgeous blocks.

Physically he reminds me of Davin Joseph and he has a similar pop out of his stance.

Miami Hurricanes RB, Lamar Miller- (Im on one-Drake) - YouTube

#72 at RG

Originally Posted by WindyCity

1. I do not think we can afford to sign Williams he would take up 80% of our available cap space.

2. Meachem for me is only an option if we decide to draft a WR in the 1st round. I do not think he can carry a WR core on his own.

Windy,

Your mock offseason is great. I don't know squat about Chandler Jones but if we could realistically draft a DE in the 2nd round who would immediately upgrade the pass rush as a rotational player, then that is obviously much cheaper and more cap-friendly then signing a big name FA. I agree with going OL/DE in 1/2 in this situation rather then taking a flyer on some WR who isn't likely to do much for us in 2012-3. I also really like guys like Hill & Norman as 3rd round type prospects with upside. A few comments/questions though...

Do you really think we would sign 5 new free agents? I was thinking that 3-4 would be more likely (including a backup QB).

How much would Mario/Avril cost in year 1 cap space...$10-12 million? Wouldn't releasing AAdams and Spaeth free up an additional $2-3 million or so? I don't see a reason to keep Spaeth as a pure blocking TE when we have ASmith to do the job for far cheaper and there would be no reason to keep Adams if we had Mario/Avril. Paea and Toe could hold down NT and Izzy would become a hybrid DE/DT run-stuffer with Wooten as the reserve pure-DE and Melton & Okoye as the pure-DTs.

If my math is correct, we could make enough cap room to sign Mario/Avril + Meacham + Royal this way. It then becomes a matter of choice as to whether Stevie + Royal + Marshall + Collins is better or worse. Interesting discussion..thanks again.

Originally Posted by soulman

MP I think that was a superb analysis of what is (ghost of Christmas present) and a very nice job of projecting some upgrades into the cast of players (ghost of Christmas future). The ghost of Christmas past doesn't merit looking at. We all know what that one looks like.

I just posted something else about this playing the devil's advocate from Tice's perspective. Or in other words we ain't replacing Webb this year. Here's Tice's viewpoint on him from my own perspective. He got little or not time last year to work with him to prepare him for LT. No OTA's and an abbreviated training camp. He got thrown to the wolves ostensibly as a rookie LT. Mixed in with some absolutely horrid and inconsistent play there were a few bright spots such as the first Viking game where he handled Allen very well. Then the were games like the second one where Allen ate him for lunch, spit him out, and ate him again, and again, and again.

Some of this can improve this year by a combination of things. An entire offseason for Tice and Holt to review tape with him and correct fatal flaws in his technique. A year under his belt now getting used to his responsibilities and a better familiarity with some of his opponents. The game begins to slow down for him as he begins to "get it" (this may be assuming too much). Tice and Holt teach him how to counter double moves back to the inside. The pass drops will be shorter, the ball will come out quicker and we'll use more rollouts and a moving pocket so he won't need to hold blocks so long (remember Martz was calling plays like he still had Orlando Pace in his prime playing LT). There will be times when he'll get help for a TE. No shame in that every team does that at times.

What concerns me that doesn't seem to bother Tice so far is the number of pure mental mistakes the guy makes. Is he smart enough to figure out what he's doing wrong or losing focus so he can correct that. Tice can't be out there playing for him and if he has a low IQ that will not improve.

My conclusion is that Tice will not give up on him this year so we (Cutler too) better get used to seeing #73 playing LT again. So just pray we get anybody but OMG to back him up. That would be a catastrophe in he played.

So if were not gonna replace him that may well rule out Adams as a #1 pick and if we can get who we need at WR in FA that disappears as a first round priority. We never draft CB's that early or SS's but there aren't any worth the #19 pick anyway. So that leaves up taking either a lineman of a LB. Kuechley is a Bears type LB but he's rated to go before the Bears pick and I don't see another who fits as well. So now were down to lineman.

I think DE is the better way to go and if Ingram is there we probably take him. BUT if by some miracle we can pry MWill away from Houston (I may actually to a Tebow type "give thanks" kneel for that) but I'll be praying to Halas, the Bears patron saint, to put in a good word for us with the boss. So if we do get MWill that leaves an Olineman and luckily there may be two can't miss guys who as Tice indicated, fall into our laps. Take on because if either Konz or Glenn are still there at #19 I believe they will be the BPA's on the Bear's board and it's not like we don't need any lineman after ignoring it for so long. We can only get so far when half the line is made up of 7th round picks an FA's.

So there I've spoken my piece and it's pretty much in agreement with yours MP. Now if we can just get Emery to get us MWill and a couple of FA receivers.

LOL, Soul...thanks for that.

Yeah, I'm gradually but grudgingly resigning myself to the reality that, although I disagree with Tice and have the same concerns about Webb as you do, we are probably stuck with J'Marcus as our starting LT next year. I don't like it, I don't agree with it, but I can live with it...now will Cutler?

I really like Tice and admire what he has done with next to nothing the last few years but I do shake my head in bewilderment at his near-religious and messianic faith in Webb. He knows way better than me but all the playcalling changes and OTAs and experiential improvements he believes in for Webb better the heck work by this fall. If #73 turns back into a penalty machine or whiffs his way to getting Jay back on IR, then Mike Tice is gonna have a lot to answer for...especially if Adams was still on the board in round 1.

Please please please tell me that we are going to at least upgrade Omiyale somehow.

Originally Posted by Grizzblue

Great original Post but you can't fall into the misguided judgment that your center is less important than a gaurd or tackle and need to give serious thought to Peter Konz out of Wis at 19

One of the better centers to come out in recent history he is a true center (not converted guard) and as you states garza is a better gaurd so he could move back

Playing in the NFC north with Suh Farley and Raji that position has to be solidified and needs confederation if a flloyd isn't available

What really appeals to me about Konz other than his talent and size is his edge I'm a huge big 10 football fan but wis isnt always televised in my area but from what I hbe seen and read is he has an edge or nastiness that the position needs (kreutz tried for a knockout blow via weight on his own teammate and went to how many pro bowls) Soulman seems to know his Wisconsin football maybe he would be able to answer this?

Grizz,

Thanks and you're preaching to the choir fella. My thinking (worth only 2 cents lol) has evolved on this and you don't need to convince me of our need to upgrade the OL with another starter prospect SOMEWHERE in the positional mix. I'm also a firm believer in Big-10 linemen (although that's far from the only consideration) on both sides of the ball. I'd love to add an OT, an OG, or a C who is starting quality and a BPA for us in the 1st. That's why I mentioned going all out to sign Mario/Avril + Meacham in FA and going OL BPA in round 1. As it so happens, it looks like there could be 3 or 4 very high quality upgrades available in the mid first that would fit the bill and 2 of them happen to be Big-Ten guys to boot. Any OLman who could project to start at a position other than RT would be an upgrade and future help. I also believe that such a pick would be a wiser and "safer" pick than any WR we could hope to draft in round 1. I do NOT want to draft some doofus can't-beat-press-coverage diva like Floyd who may very well bust and at best isn't going to produce significantly for a year or two minimum. As it stands now in this hypothetical scenario preliminarily...

If DeCastro is there at #19 (maybe), I take him no matter what. He starts at LG, pushes CWill to push Webb, and helps out whoever plays LT.

If Glenn is there at #19 (very possibly), I take him no matter what. He starts at LG, pushes CWill to push Webb, and helps out whoever plays LT.

If Adams is there at #19 (very possibly), I take him no matter what. He starts at LT or at least pushes Webb and eliminates OMG from the roster. Tice needs to deal with it ego and all, and Emery makes the call.

If Konz is there at #19 (very likely), I take him or even risk a trade down to take him and net another pick. He pushes Garza to OG where he's best anyway and pushes CWill to push Webb.

CWill is a FA next year and this year is put-up-or-shut-up time for him. He either stays healthy and rocks it at OG, shows he can play LT, or hits the open market. The dude was a high 1st round pick and needs to earn it.

Any of those guys, esp. DeCastro and Konz, would be likely long-term OL fixtures for us. There's just too many question marks for me to justify taking the available (rotational only) DEs...I'd rather spend the $ on a proven entity in FA or wait till the 2nd if it comes to that.

Originally Posted by soulman

(He doesn't need to carry it on his own. We do have other competent receivers who in all likelihood produce more in 2012 than a rookie would)

Now for MWill:

Based on a cap varying from $25-$30 mil at 80% that would mean his 2012 cap cost would be between $20-$24 mil?????? No way he would consume that much of the cap. Not even close.

If we could sign him to the same deal Pep got $84mil/6yrs w/$42mil guaranteed. We front loaded the hell out of that deal because we had plenty of cap space to do it. So if we gave him the whole $42 mil as a SB (which we would never do but I want to make this simple) that would be $7 mil against the cap. If you added to his SB $4 mil in salary the cap cost year one would be just $11 mil and you can reduce that by reducing his salary. But let's leave it that way and increase the salary by $1 mil each for the next 3 years so $5-$6-$7 mil = $22 mil then his salary goes to $10 mil in years 5 and 6. This is pretty simplistic but the highest his cap cost ever gets is $17 mil and his first year cap cost is just $11 mil or at most 55% of the excess as it's estimated to stand right now.

MWill get 60% of his entire contract in the first two years which is roughly equivalent to what Pep got. He takes home over $50 mil cash in the next two years. To me that's one hell of a deal.

Exactly how did you arrive at 80%?

Not to pile on, but I was wondering that too. I was figuring his 1st year cap cost at around $10-12 million and that would be nowhere near 80% unless we make some really stupid re-signings and unneccesary retentions. There is room for a reasonable WR signing or two in addition if we forgo signing one of the big-bucks guys like VJax which frankly we don't really need anyway as the NYG just proved.

Originally Posted by soulman

(He doesn't need to carry it on his own. We do have other competent receivers who in all likelihood produce more in 2012 than a rookie would)

Now for MWill:

Based on a cap varying from $25-$30 mil at 80% that would mean his 2012 cap cost would be between $20-$24 mil?????? No way he would consume that much of the cap. Not even close.

If we could sign him to the same deal Pep got $84mil/6yrs w/$42mil guaranteed. We front loaded the hell out of that deal because we had plenty of cap space to do it. So if we gave him the whole $42 mil as a SB (which we would never do but I want to make this simple) that would be $7 mil against the cap. If you added to his SB $4 mil in salary the cap cost year one would be just $11 mil and you can reduce that by reducing his salary. But let's leave it that way and increase the salary by $1 mil each for the next 3 years so $5-$6-$7 mil = $22 mil then his salary goes to $10 mil in years 5 and 6. This is pretty simplistic but the highest his cap cost ever gets is $17 mil and his first year cap cost is just $11 mil or at most 55% of the excess as it's estimated to stand right now.

MWill get 60% of his entire contract in the first two years which is roughly equivalent to what Pep got. He takes home over $50 mil cash in the next two years. To me that's one hell of a deal.

Exactly how did you arrive at 80%?

Not 80% of the total budget, 80 % of our free agent budget. We start with 30 million, but we will spend about 10 million on Forte and resignings.

Of the 20 million left for free agents he would take up close to 80% if we seperate his deal out evenly.

Pep got 6 years 92 million/42 guaranteed

The guaranteed money does not really matter when we pay him, but when we choose to spread it out.

We need to find a way to get 92 million into 6 years because every cent of it counts against the cap at some point. the average is 15.3 million.

Year 1: 15.3

Year 2: 15.3

Year 3: 15.3

Year 4: 15.3

Year 5: 15.3

Year 6: 15.3

Soul I was more asking about the way Konz plays is it true that he has an edge o the field?