Thread: Mario Williams should be the Bears top priority

Originally Posted by Blue Horse-shoe

As a football player having him on this team would be a no-brainer. But you have to consider that he has had some injuries, they'd have to 'overspend" to get him, and you run the risk of pissing off alot of players who have been here for a long time ....cuz seeing The New Kid on the Block getting what would probably amount to the biggest contract in Bears history would have alotta guys thinking " F this place". Plus they could probably get 3 players for his price.


He's missed some time the last couple of years with some injuries but none that serious or career threatening. But, you'd still want to review that and make certain he has a clean bill of health and is ready to go now.Didn't happen when we signed Pep and it won't happen if we sign MWill. No one can argue that players of that stature aren't worth the $$$. Put a Super Bowl ring on their finger, or even the potential for one, and they'll forget all about it. That only happens when you pay a guy more than someone else who's as good or better. Or in other words the mess NO has with Nicks thinking he deserves more than Jahari Evans.

The only guy on the Bears who even comes close to MWill's stature would be Pep and he's been well taken care of already.

Love to see it . But the ft office needs to think long and hard about it. There's alot of factors to consider here.

I agree with you that I wouldn't just plunge in without evaluating it thoroughly including every thing you pointed out but short of a serious, career threatening injury the other factors should fall into place. Just like Pep when he became a free agent we did our homework on him and jumped hard and fast. We need to do likewise with him if it's a go.

I was deadly opposed to the Peppers deal when he was the top FA in 2010 thinking we'd be paying too much for too little. Boy was I wrong and I've admitted it. I have seen the light. The Bears aren't a great passing team despite Jay Cutler and they never will be. It's not the Bears style of play. A top class WR will make less of an impact than a top class pass rusher. Other than the Bears no other team depends on their pass rush more except the Giants and they won a Super Bowl with it without a top class WR.

In our conference we have two passing combos who can and have killed us when they got time to throw, Rodgers/Jennings and Stafford/Megatron. We won't beat those teams, especially not the Packers, by outscoring then in a shoot out. We beat them by shutting down their passing game just like the Giants did. We need to improve our passing game and we will but it's no more or less important to the Bears success than our pass rush. It's the basis for the defense we play.

If we don't get him or they feel they can't afford him so be it but it makes our work in the draft all that much easier if we don't have to make a tough decision about what comes first a WR or a DE. I'll accept whatever happens without complaint because I think Emery knows what he's doing and what the game plan is. But is we want to win a Super Bowl that pass rusher needs to improve as well as out passing offense. One isn't anymore inportant than the other. JMHO.

Chicago Bears Report

Bears free agents: Who stays, who goes?

March, 8, 2012 Mar 8
1:44
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By Jeff Dickerson and Michael C. Wright


Dennis Wierzbicki/US PresswireRoy Williams and his representatives haven't yet heard from the Bears about re-signing, according to sources.
The natural inclination is to look outside the current roster with the start of free agency on Tuesday, but certainly the Chicago Bears need to explore bringing back some of their own.

Obviously, the Bears won’t re-sign all 12 of their free agents (not counting Matt Forte, who received the franchise designation), but signs point to the club retaining a good portion of them. The Bears met with representatives for several of their current free agents at the NFL combine in February, but predictably kept their plans for the future close to the vest as the club weighs options outside in free agency against its own players.

Here, we attempt to unravel some of the mystery by predicting which free agents the team plans to bring back, and those expected to put on new uniforms in 2012:

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LIKELY STAYING

Craig Steltz, S, unrestricted: Even though three safeties were recently given the franchise tag by their respective teams (Dashon Goldson, Michael Griffin, Tyvon Branch), there is still expected to be a fairly deep safety class when free agency begins Tuesday. Steltz saw his stock rise last year when he started a career-best five games, finishing with 48 tackles, three tackles for lost yardage, two forced fumbles and a sack. A 2008 fourth-round pick, Steltz always has been an excellent special teams player. He ranked fourth last season with 12 special teams stops, and is considered by many to be one of the best tacklers on the team. It's unclear if the Bears would let Steltz compete for a starting job next year if he comes back -- they should -- but one thing is clear: The Bears are a better team in 2012 with Steltz on the roster than without.

Justin Edmonds/Getty ImagesJosh McCown likely will be back with the Bears in 2012.

Josh McCown, QB, unrestricted: For coming in off the street in late November, McCown performed surprisingly well when given the chance to start the last two regular season games. For those efforts, the Bears should reward the veteran with a new one-year deal and make him -- at the very least -- their No. 3 quarterback. Of course, entering his 10th year in the NFL, McCown would command a respectable veteran minimum salary. Given the issues that have plagued the Bears at backup quarterback the last two seasons, retaining McCown and adding another experienced option behind Jay Cutler, sounds like a good idea. It’s believed the Bears plan to bring back McCown as the No. 3, with a chance to win the No. 2 spot in training camp.

Kahlil Bell, RB, restricted: The Bears will no doubt tender Bell with the intent of bringing him back as either the No. 2 or No. 3 running back on the depth chart. Bell coughed up the ball a few times last year, which he acknowledges can’t happen in the future. But he did run for a career-high 121 yards at Green Bay on Christmas night. Plus, the Bears backfield is a tad unsettled right now with Forte dealing with the franchise tag and Marion Barber appearing to be a prime candidate to be released because of his $2.25 million cap charge in 2012. That makes retaining Bell for another season all the more important -- and financially prudent -- for a team expected to place more of an emphasis on the run under new offensive coordinator Mike Tice.

Kellen Davis, TE, unrestricted: Lovie Smith's motives for heaping praise on Davis the last few months are simple: There probably won't be a better option available in free agency. With the exception of perhaps Seattle's John Carlson, this isn't considered a very good year to draft or sign a tight end. Even if the Bears are somehow able to upgrade with a better No. 1, Davis should still be brought back to be the No. 2, with established blocker Matt Spaeth rounding out the group. The Bears need Davis in some capacity, which is probably why Smith went overboard when he compared Davis to the great tight ends in the league, which he is not. But Davis is a terrific athlete who can run block, catch the ball and rarely makes mental mistakes. He just doesn't have a great feel for the game. Still, the Bears make it sound as if they want Davis to return, and for good reason.

Amobi Okoye, DT, unrestricted: Because of limited action, Okoye didn't exactly light the world on fire in his first season with the Bears (four sacks), but he certainly made enough plays for the Bears to strongly consider bringing him back. Despite entering his sixth NFL season, Okoye is still a young guy set to turn 25 in June. Continued work with defensive coordinator Rod Marinelli should only further Okoye’s development. Of course, there's no telling what market might develop for Okoye in free agency, or how much the defensive tackle wants to be paid, but he certainly seems like a strong candidate for the Bears to attempt to re-sign. If Okoye walks via free agency, the Bears could always attempt to re-sign the recently released Anthony Adams at a cheaper price.

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LIKELY GOING

[+] Enlarge
AP Photo/Amy SancettaZack Bowman has the size and athleticism but has lacked the production the past two seasons.

Zack Bowman, CB, unrestricted: Bowman could benefit from a fresh start after being unable to permanently win back the starting job he lost to Tim Jennings in early 2010. If nothing else, Bowman -- with 16 career starts -- should be an attractive option in the second wave of free agency for teams looking to improve depth at cornerback. Despite a rough outing at the end of 2011 against Green Bay, a game in which the coaching staff required Bowman to play outside leverage in the red zone, Bowman has an impressive combination of size and athleticism, not to mention a proven track record of being a quality special teamer (10 special-teams tackles and a fumble recovery last year). All it takes is one offseason to catch the eye of a coaching staff. Bowman has turned heads in the past -- six interceptions in 2009 -- so what's to say it can't happen again with a change of scenery?

Caleb Hanie, QB, unrestricted: Hanie will not return to the Bears after starting four games last season in place of the injured Jay Cutler. The next move for the quarterback will be to try and catch on with a team and win a backup job in training camp. With four accrued NFL seasons, Hanie will be more expensive for teams to carry on their roster than say a rookie or second-year player. That could make finding work a little more difficult. But there could be a coach, or general manager who feels Hanie can still be a player in the NFL. If Roy Williams catches a sure touchdown pass versus Kansas City, or if Marion Barber knew the basic rules of football, the Bears probably win two of the games Hanie started, which might have improved his free-agent stock. None of those happened, so now the quarterback must wait and see how the market pans out.

Brandon Meriweather, S, unrestricted: Meriweather never got on track in Chicago after the Bears overpaid ($3.25 million) to land the two-time Pro Bowler and former New England Patriot, and Smith admitted as much last month at the NFL combine. Meriweather started four games over the first five weeks, but became an afterthought by the end of the season, playing in just six more games and being held out the rest despite being healthy. He lived up to his reputation of being an undisciplined freelancer, which makes his initial signing even more curious, since Smith has always refused to tolerate any freelancing or undisciplined play in the secondary.

Chris Massey, LS, unrestricted: The Bears' plan right now is to not bring back Massey, who did a good job filling in for Patrick Mannelly over the final six weeks. Fullback Tyler Clutts can probably handle long-snapping duties in the offseason until Mannelly is fully recovered from his knee injury. But Massey proved to the Bears he can be a reliable option if necessary.

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TOSS UP

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AP Photo/Nam Y. HuhWill some team pay Corey Graham starter money?

Corey Graham, CB, unrestricted: There is little question Graham prefers a fresh start. In fact, Graham felt that way last year until the post-lockout market forced him back to the Bears. But is Graham going to find a team that will sign and pay him like a starter or give him the opportunity to fill such a role? Teams, however, will be interested -- there is already one report of Graham drawing interest from the San Diego Chargers. But how do they view Graham? Is he a starter or simply a versatile reserve and outstanding special teams player? We know how the Bears view Graham, however. We also know they really want to keep him and would likely offer up a nice bump in pay. Here's the bottom line: If Graham gets an opportunity to start, then he needs to leave. If he doesn't, he should think long and hard about coming back to the Bears.

Tim Jennings, CB, unrestricted: Free agents are going to find out their true worth in this market. One of those players is Jennings, who is looking for a sizeable raise from the $1.4 million base salary he pocketed in 2011. Jennings and his representatives haven’t heard from the Bears so far this offseason about a possible return, according to sources. Although he is a good player, Jennings isn’t someone the Bears are going to overspend to keep. If Jennings can't get what he wants from another team, perhaps he does return to the Bears, but probably in a backup role, or maybe as a candidate to compete at the nickel position.

Israel Idonije, DE, unrestricted: This might come down to money. Idonije earned base salaries the past two seasons of $2.4 million, and carried a cap charge in 2011 of $2.833 million. How much more is Idonije looking for in 2012? What are the Bears willing to pay? How much interest is there for the 31-year-old once free agency begins? Even if the Bears try and find a new starting defensive end to complement Julius Peppers, we can certainly argue the Bears are better off keeping Idonije in the rotation over Corey Wootton, who has yet to make much of a mark after two years in the NFL, largely because of injuries. Not only has Idonije proved himself to be a much more effective pass rusher than Wootton, he’s versatile and can drop inside to play tackle if necessary. But here is where draft status and the economics of the game play a factor. Wootton is scheduled to earn a base salary of $490,000 in 2012. In a perfect world, the Bears upgrade at defensive end while keeping Idonije in the rotation, maybe as the No. 3 pass rusher. That would leave Wootton and veteran Chauncey Davis, who showed some flashes last year, to battle it out for the last spot. But we all know it's not always a perfect world.

Roy Williams, WR, unrestricted: Former offensive coordinator Mike Martz’s lofty prediction of 80-plus catches for Williams during training camp led to unrealistic expectations for the veteran receiver, who tied for second on the team in receptions (37). Williams played more snaps (616) than any other receiver on the roster and was the second-most targeted (60), dropping seven of the 44 catchable balls thrown his way. Interestingly, Williams was the team’s second-leading receiver from the slot (behind Earl Bennett), where he caught 10 passes for 139 yards and a touchdown with only one drop. So perhaps a spot in the slot is in Williams’ future if he remains with the Bears. According to a source, the team indicated shortly after the season it wanted to bring him back in 2012. But sources also indicated that Williams and his representatives haven’t yet heard from the Bears about re-signing with the team. Given what’s on the roster now and the major back injury to Johnny Knox -- who ranked second on the team with 547 snaps in 2011 -- the Bears don’t have many options at the position. So unless the club plans on making multiple acquisitions at receiver, it makes sense to bring back Williams, who despite the drops, made several catches in 2011 that most of the team’s receivers -- outside of Bennett -- couldn't make.
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I don't fall in love with sack numbers like alot of people do. 16 sacks is a good solid number for most players - but that averages out to 1 per game. Sacks are nice but they're really not that much more important than a TFL if u really think about it. Pressures / hurries throughout an entire game are more important imo cuz it screws up a larger # of plays. A cheaper DE who creates pressure numerous times is good also. I just really hesitate putting too much money in 1 guys pocket and ruining the salary structure of the entire team.

Sacks account for a few plays a game and are rarely THE determining factor in who wins.

Originally Posted by Jimmors

Yes, while having Mario would be nice...it would cost us too much. Why have so much money tied up in one position? Sure...we might have the best DL in the league, but at what expense to our offense?

No, id much rather splurge and pick up Nicks and possibly VinJack if possible.

Ya' know I just totally give up on this one. I can't think of a better way to WASTE $60 mil than to sign Carl Nicks. If we really need a 350lb OG then there's one 1st rounder, Cordy Glenn and one 2nd round, Brandon Brooks, who could easily become the next Carl Nicks and they would cost a fraction of what Nicks cost. The day we spend $60 mil on a FA OG is the day I stop being a Bears fan and I'm not worried about either happening.

Originally Posted by WindyCity

My thinking on the Williams matter is that we can spend 100 million in different ways.

Cark Nicks 7 years 60 million/28 guaranteed

Pierre Garcon 5 years 35 million/18 guaranteed

We could get both these guys for the same amount of money as the 100 million that Mario Williams is going to get paid.

Just what is it with you guys who have such a fascination with Carl Nicks? Carl Nicks is not worth $60 mil to the CHICAGO BEARS. Especially not when there are 4 OG's in the top 50 players who would be great picks and cost less over 4 years than Carl Nicks does in one year. Carl Nicks is not needed when you have those options at your disposal if he's even needed at all.

This reasoning that he's great because he's such a tremendous pass blocker he keeps the pocket clean. Well, when you have a 6' tall (maybe) "down in front" semi-midget passer pocket passer that would probably be more important than having a 6'3" passer with the mobility Cutler has. If you've listened at all to what Tice plans to do with the offense, moving pocket, planned roll-outs, chipping with the TE and RB, then we don't need a guy to keep a passing lane clear in front of Cutler like NO does in front of Brees.

With the Bears he's a $60 mil waste that we won't even benefit as much from as signing Pierre Garcon who incidentally has already turned that offer down from his own team. If he was willing to settle for that it would be far more likely that he either would have already or with Luck coming in the door if that's the best he can do he'll re-sign with Indy. Unless we pay significantly more than Indy will he's not coming to Chicago.

Think this out guys. Why sign a FA OG when our major problems with the offense are at LT and WR. It's like rubbing your head right after you stubbed your toe. An OG won't help. Going into FA and the draft we need a WR, DE, LT, CB, and LB not necessarily in that exact order but close. If there a great opportunity to pick up a very good OG who is just hands down the BPA at that spot in the draft you take him because you never give up the opportunity to get a good lineman but that's where you go for OG depth. Not Carl Nicks.

This is a conglomeration of ideas from this and a few other threads (my thanks to Windy for his Mario-mock w/ minor revisions) assuming Pompei's assertion that Chris Williams will be moved back to OT is true. Yes, this is doable financially:

Release/Do not re-sign (~$9 million saved)
OT Frank Omiyale [1.6 million]
RB Marion Barber [1.9 million]
DE Chauncey Davis [500K]
DT Anthony Adams [1.9 million]
OG Mansfield Wrotto [500K]
WR Max Komar [500K]
TE Matt Spaeth [1.8 million]
CB Tim Jennings
CB Zach Bowman
WR Roy Williams
QB Caleb Hanie
S Brandon Meriweather

Retain/Re-sign
RB Matt Forte
RB Kalil Bell
TE Kellen Davis
S Craig Steltz
CB/S Corey Graham
QB Josh McCown
DT Amobi Okoye
DE/DT Israel Idonije


Free Agency
DE Mario Williams

WR Reggie Wayne (2 yr contract as a stopgap flanker while draft pick is developed)

WR/KR Donald Royal

QB Henne/Garrard (most cost effective vet available)


Draft
1 [19]: WR Stephen Hill

(trade 2 [50] and 4 [111] for 2 [43])

2 [43]: OG Kevin Zeitler

3 [74]: CB Josh Norman

3 [80]: LB Terrell Manning

5 [143]: S/ST Winston Guy, Jr.

6 & 7: BPAs

Depth Chart (likely starters in caps)
QB: CUTLER, Henne/Garrard, McCown
RB: FORTE, Bell, Unga
FB: CLUTTS
OT: CARIMI, WEBB or CWILLIAMS, Webb or CWilliams
OC: GARZA, Spencer, EWilliams
OG: ZEITLER, LOUIS, Spencer, EWilliams
WR: WAYNE, BENNETT, Hill, Knox
Slot: Royal, Hester
TE: KDAVIS, ASmith, Adams

DE: PEPPERS, MWILLIAMS, Izzy, Wooten
DT: PAEA, OKOYE, Melton, Toeina
LB: URLACHER, BRIGGS, ROACH, DeCicco, Manning, draft/fa/JTThomas
CB: TILLMAN, NORMAN, DJMoore, Graham
S: CONTE, WRIGHT, Steltz, Guy

Originally Posted by Blue Horse-shoe

I don't fall in love with sack numbers like alot of people do. 16 sacks is a good solid number for most players - but that averages out to 1 per game. Sacks are nice but they're really not that much more important than a TFL if u really think about it.Pressures / hurries throughout an entire game are more important imo cuz it screws up a larger # of plays. A cheaper DE who creates pressure numerous times is good also. I just really hesitate putting too much money in 1 guys pocket and ruining the salary structure of the entire team.

Izzy did that pretty well and so did Pep. Did we win the SB? Would we have won it even with Cutler. Would we even have been able to beat that Giant pass rush in the playoffs. The Packers couldn't and they have a hell of a lot better passing offense than we do and Rodgers is one of the hardest QB's to sack in the NFL.

Sacks account for a few plays a game and are rarely THE determining factor in who wins.

Oh for crap sake how do you all think the Giants got past the pass happy Packers and Pats to win the Super Bowl. By keeping two of the top offenses in the NFL in check they won a SB without a #1 WR, without a super TE, and without a RB anywhere near as good as Matt Forte. So if it wasn't their defense led by their Dline (because their LB's are nothing to brag about and neither are their CBs) what was it? Sacks and constant pressure from their Dline rotation was THE determining factor.

If we can afford Julius Peppers we can afford Mario Williams too if the Bears want him badly enough. Lovie's entire defensive philosophy is based on sacks and constant QB pressure. We play a zone defense and it's easy to find openings in it when you have the time to wait for your receiver to find them and you find the receiver. Rodgers proves that everytime he plays us. The way you beat that is to knock him on his ass. He won't complete many throws from there.

I'll see you all after FA starts and I see what direction we go in. If I see one more suggestion that we should sign fuckin' Carl Nicks and draft a TE I'll flip. I'm tired of justifying this option time and time again. Even proving it can be done without restricting others areas of need anymore than signing Carl Nicks or VJax would. Nobody reads or nobody believes.

Well I'll let all you masterminds of the cap and our coaching philosophies duke it out amongst yourselves. I didn't make this suggestion without research, cautions about injury concerns, a knowledge of our coaching philsophies, and even the admission that MWill may opt to re-sign with Houston. I didn't just wake up one day and think he'd look nice in a Bears uni. I have no more to add.