-
Originally Posted by
JJ-30 
I am not even sure its the Bears doing the shopping, its looks more like the others are asking.
And I agree with you JJ. NE is always looking for ways to improve as long as they can do it on their terms. If a team came along with an offer which made some sense in order to obtain permission to talk with him then I might be inclined to do it but if you can't pay the price of admission you don't get to see the show. A bottom second round pick wouldn't even get you a place in line if I'm running the show.
I'm getting to that age where a lifetime warranty just doesn't mean as much to me anymore as an afternoon nap. 
Honey Badger Don't Care. Honey Badger Don't Give a Shit.
-
High Fives / Like - 2 BEAR DOWN!, 0 Dislikes
-
-
Trade Matts whiney ass away. I am tired of hearing how players want more money and when they get it they turn almost into instant shit. I am sure the deal that was offered to him was good enough to live the rest of your life dept free yet these athletes just want more and more money.
-
High Fives / Like - 1 BEAR DOWN!, 1 Dislikes
-
Again, you don't want to get paid for the sake of being paid, it's being paid what your value is; it's a sign of respect in his profession to be paid, and that is how you're worth is judged by the team and other players. It's Fucking moronic to think he should be happy w/13-14mil when all his contemporaries are getting 18-20 mil. And it's insuling to him.
Like Soul pointed out, there is no reason the team shouldn't have offered at least 17mil in guarantees as that is what they would have to pay out in FT's over the next 3 years.
My wife and I live'd good on 50K a year, should we not expect to get paid more since both our degrees state we are worth more? Should we have not looked elsewhere and just been happy making far less then we were worth; or should we've just been happy and not continued to improve our lifestyle?
-
Well here's a scenario I posted in another thread that should make both sides happy. Matt gets a decent contract with competitive guarantees and the Bears get to recapture some needed cap dollars this year and next over what the tag costs them.
Here's an example of a structure with $18 mil guaranteed and $31 mil over 4 years.
$31 mil/4 years with a $10 mil SB
2012 Salary = $3.0 mil SB Charge = $2.5 mil Cap Cost = $5.5 mil
2013 Salary = $5.0 mil SB Charge = $2.5 mil Cap Cost = $7.5 mil
2014 Salary = $6.0 mil SB Charge = $2.5 mil Cap Cost = $8.5 mil
2015 Salary = $7.0 mil SB Charge = $2.5 mil Cap Cost = $9.5 mil
Total Salary = $21 mil Total SB = $10 mil Total Cost = $31 mil
Total Guaranteed: $18 mil ($10 SB + 2012-2013 Salary @ $ 8 mil)
This is an over simplified structure but it illustrates the point. Here's a deal that fits in between what Lynch and Foster received. Forte puts $13 mil in his pocket in 2012 and another $5 mil guaranteed in 2013 so $18 mil total in guarantees.
The Bears benefit by the having only $13 mil of the $18 charged against the cap for these years as opposed to the $18 mil actually paid out or the $17 mil they would pay out if they franchised him both years. That $4 mil can easily pay for another player upgrade.
By 2014 when Forte's cap cost has risen to $8.5 mil there is only $5 mil of unamortized bonus remaining. If Forte's productivity has declined after two years or he incurs a career ending injury the Bears can release him in 2014 and actually save $3.5 mil of cap space.
Again, this is oversimplified because there would ordinarily be less salary and more incentive or workout bonuses in years 3 and 4 but the cap accounting works out the same if those bonuses are earned and they are paid out.
If the Bears are offering something far less than this or Forte is expecting something far more than this then both need to get a bit more realistic because this would represent a good example of a 4 year market level deal. JMO.
I'm getting to that age where a lifetime warranty just doesn't mean as much to me anymore as an afternoon nap. Honey Badger Don't Care. Honey Badger Don't Give a Shit.
-
High Fives / Like - 1 BEAR DOWN!, 0 Dislikes
-
As Hub stated though, why not FT him individually for 3years at essentially the same cost? It's the smart business move, even if it does mean your pissing him off.
It will be interesting; I still see both sides, although I lean w/Forte. I do believe the contract will get signed still, I have no doubt the team wants him to be a Bear for the foreseeable future.
-
Junior Member
Originally Posted by
soulman You'd take less than we paid originally for an unproven from a school that's not exactly a football machine? No way! The Bears took a risk drafting him and that risk paid off handsomely. There is no way you trade away a guy whose that valuable in your own offense for that little. Not when you don't need to do it.
Anytime there's a contract squabble teams like NE will always swoop in with a lowball offer to take your problem away from you. There probably isn't a team in the NFL more personnel savvy than NE. If they didn't see him as a potential star in there offense they wouldn't even give him a sniff. That alone is an indication of his worth.
According to an article I read and posted just a few months ago the author rated Forte as being worth as much as a #8 to #14 first round pick and unless someone came up with an offer in that range I wouldn't even bother to return their call. If you want to offer a lower first then I want a mid round pick that I could use to trade up into that #8 to #14 range because that's what he's worth to my team.
I'm not saying any team will do that but that doesn't mean we should take any less in a situation where we don't have to do it. Forte is tagged. He can't go anywhere and he can't even negotiate with other teams unless we give a go ahead and I would not do that unless there was a pick in that range put on the table for the right to do it.
If the article you read/posted said he would be picked in the 8 to 14 range on a re-do of the 2008 draft I can believe it easily. You get 4 years of a good back cheap (RBs give good value even in rookie years). If the claim was was worth that much *now* then a free market should provide some offers around there ... I would be very pleasantly surprised if that happened. The difference is that he now costs the Bears enough cap space that he 'prevents' the signing of a high quality FA. So if the choice is Forte & Bush & Bell vs Bush & Bell & (cheap FA or 5/6th round draft pick) AND high quality FA CB or WR or OL I would pick the latter. The reason I think less of Forte than you is the most accurate measures I know of rate him little better than Barber or Bell etc. and that means he isn't elite. You may trust your eyeball more than I trust mine ... perfectly sensible, I don't know if your estimate is better than the quant. estimates. I guess my 'eyeball' estimate is halfway between, I thought him better than the quant. measure but not elite (My experience is the quant measures are better than my eyeball ... shrug) ... and I really like Bush :-) (low mileage back, can pick up TDs, good pass receiver and such). Probably an agree to disagree situation. We may soom see which way the Bear front office feels.
-
The problem is the free market will never offer what he's worth unless there's somebody desperate enough for him and I doubt that will happen. That's why I said a top 20 pick at a minimum. He's a player who is valuable enough that whoever you got for him would need to be of an equal impact although maybe at a different position.
The article was just as you said. It said in this years draft he would command that high of a pick not that someone would offer that much. But it doesn't really matter all that much. You simple put a price tag on him that you'd be happy to accept and take no less. That's the advantage of a franchise tag. No other team can even enter into negotiations with him unless the Bears agree.
He's not costing us all that much in terms of who we could sign. If all we're talking about it the difference between his cap cost under his tag vs what it might be under a longer term deal it's only about $2 mil. If we get rid of Spaeth we can gain that much additional room. As far as what we pick up cap wise if we got rid of him completely then net of what we're paying for Bush as his replacement as opposed to his backup the difference is a bit over $4 mil. Still not enough for a high profile guy if there was even one left at that level to sign right now.
He's a bit like Lance Briggs in that he's worth far more to the Bears than he is to another team but I would not trade him for less than his worth to us, not when we don't need to do that. I think eventually both sides will get more realistic and a deal will get done. If Forte wants long term security he virtually has to agree to terms or he and his agent find a team who will give up his worth in picks or a player and then offer him over $40 mil and I don't see it happening.
I can understand why players hate being tagged if all they want is the best offer they can get yet all the can get is the best their own team will offer. They didn't make the rules but the union who represents them agreed to them so it is what it is. If Forte gets a 4 year deal for somewhere around $30 mil with $17-$18 mil guaranteed he should take it. It's a fair offer.
I'm getting to that age where a lifetime warranty just doesn't mean as much to me anymore as an afternoon nap. Honey Badger Don't Care. Honey Badger Don't Give a Shit.
Riczaj01 say BEAR DOWN!
LinkBack URL
About LinkBacks
Reply With Quote