Thread: NFL Draft: Ranking the 4-3 DE Class by Tiers

Originally Posted by Zelezo Vlk

I know that they were looking at a WR in the first round before we got Marshall, but I just don't see that being very responsible anymore (of course it all depends on who's still left on the board). How would you guys feel about trading up to get Coples if he falls a few picks?

I wonder about a guy who has a rep for having a questionable motor in college while he's still trying to GET to the pros. What kind of a guy is he gonna be when he has a few mil in his pocket ?

The 1st round DE's taken ( in order ) in 11,10,09 : Stats- Tckl / Sacks >

JJ Watt- 56 / 5.5
Robert Quinn- 23 / 5
Corey Liuget- 19 / 1
Adrian Clayborn- 42 / 7.5
Cameron Jordan- 31 / 1
Cameron Heyward- 11 / 1

2010- ( 2ys of combined stats )
Brandon Graham- 16 / 3
Jason Pierre Paul- 116 / 21
Derrick Morgan- 25 / 4
Jared Odrick- 21 /6
Jerry Hughes- 12 / 1

2009 ( 3yrs comb stats )
Tyson Jackson- 83 / 2
Aaron Maybin- 25 / 6
Brian Orakpo- 165 / 28.5
Larry English- 60 / 7

Jason Pierre Paul and Orakpo have been very good - the rest speaks for itself. Small sample size but expecting a DE to contribute in a huge way their first year is much more hit/miss than some think. And .... this being a must win year for Lovie , makes me wonder if DE is the way to go in the 1st rd. Wouldn't be surprised - but also wouldn't be surprised to see a WR or OT taken either. What helps Lovie win THIS year ?

Originally Posted by WindyCity

I think you might be disappointed as the Bears draft offense in the 1st and look at DE in the middle rounds.

If I had to guess I think they will look for some situational developmental guys in rounds 2-4 to develop behind Izzy for a year and provide more speed.

1. WR

Instant starter across from Marshall.

2. OT

Competition at the most important spot against Webb.

3. DE Bruce Irvin [West Virginia]

A pure speed guy that can be developed an dplay 3rd down.

4. CB

5. DE Jake Buqeutte [Arkansas]

A athletcally limited hgh motor guy that could provide some pass rush based on effort and drive.

5000 Bears Bucks says you're wrong and 10,000 that they don't draft a WR. You willing to risk half your poke on this bet?

After the first 4 OT's there isn't another who rates a 2nd round pick. An OG maybe but no OT's.

If this was the way the Bears drafted I would have to seriously question where Emery is going with this. We have no major need to spend a 1st round pick on another WR but we do have a serious need for another pass rusher and if Okoye signs elsewhere we have another hole on the Dline to fill.

Defensively nothing is more imortant to this defense than it's pass rush and luckily there is some first round talent who could help. Irvin may be a nice reach for a pass rush specialist but he's far from a sure thing since he played ball in college at 230lbs and may not be able to carry 20-30lbs more. He's not a big framed guy.

How many different ways do you expect them to cover the need to upgrade WR? We traded for Marshall and signed Weems and you still think we should spend a first on another while other more important needs go unfilled? Bad use of resources.

We spent significant amounts on money on uprgrading the offense at QB, WR, RB and re-signed Davis at TE. For the first time in years the offense actually looks in pretty good shape both talent wise and depth wise. That alone would tell me the draft will have a defensive tilt to it. In addition to a pass rusher we need youth at LB more depth at CB and Safety and we may need another DT. LB and CB we can fill in the middle rounds but there is not on DEi n the mid rounds who can come in and become an impact player at DE. There are quite a few solid Izzy type LDE's but no one who flashes skills like the top five do.

If we want pass rush help we need to take it early. So........you up for the bet?

PS: Do you think they're paying Earl Bennett $4 mil per year to be a third down receiver off the bench or just a slot guy? I can't see the Bears of all teams spending that kind of money on a guy they don't intend to feature and only use part time. Tell me why you think Bennett won't be the #2 WR?

Another look at the "tweeners"...based on this it looks like Couples, Mercilus, Branch, and maybe Irvin could be good fits for us.






This year's draft has been labeled by some as having a “weak” defensive end class. When the so-called experts label a class “weak” it’s usually because there are not many players who you could say are sure to be drafted in the top 15. Looking at it from that viewpoint I could agree that there aren’t many players that will go at the top of the first round, but there is some depth at the position and there are a number of players we could label as “tweeners." By that I mean players who may be a defensive end in some 4-3 schemes or an OLB in some of the 3-4 schemes.

Workouts can usually determine if a player has a chance to play as a 3-4 outside linebacker. The prospect has to show that he has the ability to turn his hips and drop into coverage and also be able to plant and drive on the ball. If a player has shown strong pass rushing skills in college and then shows that he has the athletic ability to drop then his value goes up in the eyes of some teams.

Looking back at the 2006 draft, Mark Anderson was a small pass rushing defensive end at Alabama. He measured about 6-4 and 248 pounds and had a very strong Senior Bowl week. But when he worked out for 3-4 teams prior to the draft he showed some tightness in his hips. This made the 3-4 teams feel as if he couldn’t make the conversion to linebacker and because of that he fell in value and the Bears were able to draft him in the 5th round. He turned out to be a steal as he had 13 sacks as a rookie.

Last year, players like Ryan Kerrigan and Aldon Smith showed that they could drop and were drafted in the 1st round and went on to have very productive rookie years. In fairness, it has to be pointed out that even though Smith was drafted as an outside linebacker he did not play on his feet that often. He was used more as a designated pass rusher and that’s where his production was. With that being said, let’s take a look at some of the “defensive ends” in this draft and predict what position they will actually be playing once they get to the NFL.

Courtney Upshaw - Alabama
Upshaw had a great career at Alabama and showed dominating ability this past season. But when it comes to playing at the next level there may be some problems. Upshaw measures 6015 and 272 with an arm length of 31.5.” He didn’t work at the combine and also didn’t workout at Alabama’s first pro day in early March. He will be working out this week and that will tell us a lot.
With his height and arm length it will be very difficult for him to play defensive end. You could say that Dwight Freeney was 6-1 and 265 and played well so why can’t Upshaw? Freeney ran a sub 4.5 on his pro day and has better than 33’ arms…that’s the difference. The one common denominator of outstanding defensive end pass rushers in the NFL is not speed, its arm length. Few players with short arms turn out to be great pass rushers. A player needs long arms for leverage. In my opinion, Upshaw has to prove he can be a 3-4 outside linebacker who can rush the passer on an occasional basis. If he cannot drop into coverage than his NFL potential is limited. Does that mean he won’t get drafted in the first round? No…a club still may draft him that high but I feel that he may not play to the level of where he is drafted if he can’t play on his feet.

ICONMelvin Ingram may be best as an outside linebacker in a 3-4.

Melvin Ingram – South Carolina
Ingram has similar size and arm length to Upshaw (6014 and 264, 31.5). He ran about 4.71, not great speed, but he is explosive. The one thing Ingram has proven is that he can drop into coverage and do it well. Because of his size and arm length I feel he has to play as an outside linebacker in a 3-4. There are many scouts I have talked to who feel that because Ingram has such great instincts that he can play outside or inside as a linebacker and be a designated rusher. While he doesn’t have great speed, he is explosive and plays with some quick twitch.

Andre Branch – Clemson
With his size, speed, arm length and athleticism, Branch can play in most 3-4 and 4-3 schemes. He is 6042 and 259 with 34” arms and can run 4.69. He has the frame to bulk up some to play as an end in a 4-3 and the athleticism to drop into coverage for the 3-4 clubs. This enhances his value and will help him on draft day.

Quinton Coples – North Carolina
At 6056 and 284 with 33.5” arms and 4.71 speed, Coples has the physical traits to play in any scheme. He can be an outside linebacker or a 5-technique in a 3-4 or a defensive end in almost all of the 4-3 schemes. He is a very good athlete with body control and explosion. His problem is consistency. He played very well in 2010 and again at the Senior Bowl but his 2011 season was average at best. The question teams are now trying to answer for themselves is which player are they buying? The Coples of 2010 or 2011? If you draft him as high as his talent suggests you better hope that you get the player we saw in 2010!

Bruce Irvin – West Virginia
Irvin is an interesting guy. He played down at West Virginia and has flashed dominating pass rush skills. His size (6030 and 245, 33.5” arms and 4.45 speed) says 3-4 outside linebacker. He has great overall athleticism and body control but he also has the frame to get to 255-260 which means that he could play defensive end in some of the 4-3 schemes. Irvin has had a few off field issues that have to be checked out, but if the clubs feel he is all right, then he could be drafted fairly high. Few have his speed and athleticism.

Whitney Mercilus - Illinois
Whitney Mercilus has the talent, size and athletic skills to play defensive end in a 4-3 or outside linebacker in a 3-4.

I feel Merculus is somewhat like Coples. He has the talent, size and athletic skills to play defensive end in a 4-3 or outside linebacker in a 3-4. He has excellent size at 6035 and 261 with the frame to carry 270-plus. His arm length is very good (33.88) and he has excellent speed (4.68). He showed both at the Combine and his pro day that he was able to drop and he hasn’t scratched the surface of how good he can be as a pass rusher. I would think that many teams have him as a mid first round type because of his upside.

Nick Perry – USC
In my opinion, Perry can play as a 4-3 defensive end, but he would be better off as a 3-4 outside linebacker. He has played both but because of his experience playing on his feet the 3-4 teams should covet him. He has ideal size and speed (6026 and 271, 4.58, 33” arms) and very good athleticism. There are some scouts I have talked to who feel that regardless of how he tests, they question his explosion and his instincts. He shows good edge pass rush ability but lacks good counter moves. His coverage skills are more than adequate.

On reason why this is looked at as a "weak class" for DE's is the sheer number of "tweeners". But given the number of teams playing 3-4 there's no doubt these guys will go high. I'm seeing 5 guys as first round picks and a couple more probably mid to high seconds.

Looking at this group it looks to me like Ingram and Upshaw will end up as 3-4 rush guys. The arm length is a physical limitation that can't be over come. Coples is the only "big" pure DE and depending on how concerned teams are with his rep as a guy who loafs too much he may go anywhere in the top 20 although I seriously doubt he falls far past #10 if at all. There's just too much potential to become another Pep or MWill there if motivated.

So that's leaves us with Perry and Mercilus as the other tweeners most likely to go either to a 3-4 or a 4-3 team and I still think these are the two who will be on the board when the Bears pick. If that's the case then I think it would be really hard to pass up a guy with a the natural pass rush ability and upside of Mercilus. I'll add to that the fact that the Bears seemed to have shown an honest interest in him while ignoring Perry completely.

As for Branch and Irvin I'd say Branch is a guy who'll get you close to what you can get in Mercilus but without the upside. Maybe he's a fall back pick if Mercilus is gone. Irvin is one of those guys who to me is too big a gamble to draft very high. He has all kinds of speed and physical skills but he was a 225-230lb pass rush specialist in college and not an every down player. He's at 245-250 now but I have to question whether or not he can play all that much heavier. Maybe he can carry another 10-15lbs but he looks to have more of a LB's build to me. That doesn't mean he can't become a pass rushing nightmare but you have to wonder how high to take him and how much time it will take him to adapt to the NFL and 300lb plus OT's every week.

Lovie seems genuinely interested in the guy and there are some very good small pass rushers in the NFL like Mathis, Abrahams, and even Elvis Dumervil whose played DE at 5'11" 250-260lbs. So who knows.

If I had to take a guess I'd say that Mercilus is our guy if he's there and Irvin is a guy we may grab if he falls to a spot where we feel he's worth the risk. The Broncos took Dumervil in the 4th round and I could see a possibility of Irvin falling that far as well. JMO.