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Thread: Mock Draft 4/14 [Forte Trade Rumor]

  1. #21
    Senior Member MPBears68's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soulman View Post
    Without even reading farther I'll just say that if there is little if any likelihood that Matt Forte will accept the last offer the Bears gave him, and still have on the table, then I see little hope for a quick resolution and more chance of this dragging on into the summer months.

    No matter what he says now I do believe he will sign his franchise tender in July and come to camp. He's already out a ton of money from not getting an extension last year and I don't believe he'll fore go weekly paychecks of nearly $500k this fall. The real problem comes from the fact that he will continue to be a resentful unhappy camper and personally I don't think we need Matt Forte's negativity around when we're trying to win a SB.

    If a team will offer us the equivalent value of a #20 2012 first round pick for him I would do the deal in a heartbeat. I would not trade up with any other picks unless it was to get a guy like DeCastro or Coples and even then I wouldn't burn more than 3rd round pick which should get us to around #15 or a 3rd and another future pick to get to around #10-#12. I would not trade up a farther than that and then only for a very specific player. IMHO the real values in the first round start after #15 and even drafting at #19 and again in the low to mid 20's we'll have a number of very good players to choose from.

    Matt Forte can't go anywhere in 2012 and as I said I think the chances of him holding out are very very slim. So we're not in a position where we have to trade him but as draft day approaches his value will go up and if we can maximize that in a trade for a 2012 1st round pick to fill another hole I think we need to think about it very seriously. We can win without him and the thought of adding a top pass rusher and a LB, CB, or an OG with picks later in one or high in two if we trade back to me more than make up for losing a him. JMHO.
    I would much rather get Forte signed to a long term deal. But that seems increasingly unlikely as the atmosphere is getting more and more poisoned. The Bears aren't willing to break the bank for Forte (correctly IMO) not because they don't value him as a player but because A] they know the RB position is pretty replaceable and short-term, B] they have secured reasonable "insurance" at the position with Bush & Bell, and C] the teams needs to keep some "powder dry" money-wise for extending Urlacher and retaining Cutler fairly soon. Seems to me that the Bears have made an offer to Forte that's 95% of what they are willing to do (maybe a little wiggle room in there but not much) and they intend to "rent" him for the $7.7m FT otherwise this year. It's pretty likely that he won't be 40-45% of the offense this year with the other additions that have been made and he wouldn't be in a position to demand as generous of a long-term deal during/after the 2012 season, He will probably either have to sign a lesser deal, demand a trade, or risk injury playing again potentially under another FT. I really doubt the team would re-FT him next year given that the cost (>$9mil) would out-weigh his future value most likely. Bottom line: seems like both sides would be better off in the long run with trading Forte now (when his value/earning power is highest and IF a suitable partner is available) if a multi-year deal simply can't be agreed upon.

    My best guess is that Cleveland is the most plausible partner for reasons that have well fleshed out here. Their #22 pick is reasonable compensation for the Bears IMO in light of what they could do in the draft and the salary cap restrictions that are freed up. The Brownies get, if they are willing to pay him, their future franchise QB (reaching for Tannehill @ #4 to keep him away from Miami or KC) and their franchise RB in effect with their 2 1st round picks. The Bears, in return for accepting a lesser but still decent RB corps, get another 1st round pick and millions of dollars in freedom from salary cap for FAs, Urlacher, Cutler, etc. Just think of what this could mean on draft day next week.

    Couples in now realistically in play and he is the best physical fit for the team as a dominant 3-down plug-and-play franchise 4-3 DE. He's a physical freak who has Peppers v2.0 talent/power/skill and is the only 1st round guy who isn't truly a "tweener" between DE and OLB in measurables. Trading up from #19 for him via a 2nd rounder (gets you to ~ #11) or a 3rd rounder (gets you to ~ #14/15) makes him eminently draftable and allows Izzy to be used as a hybrid DE/DT who can play inside and out in rotation, especially for run defense which is his best skillset. Yes, there's a risk that Couples' "motor issues" are a concern but as others have pointed out the Bears is about the best situation for him to dispel those doubts (which were also raised about Peppers and Mario in the past). Couples would be playing on a dominant, almost freakish DL with known motivators in Marinelli and Lovie pushing him, and with his idol/mentor Peppers also kicking his ass. That line would be as good as Detroit's and Buffalo's IMHO.

    You'd still have the #22 pick as well. Trading it down to the latter 1st or even upper 2nd would net you back the 2nd/3rd rounder you gave up for Couples and still prob also allow you to get Konz (pref.) or Zeitler. With Konz, you know have the Bears future franchise Center who can play OG in the meantime if Cutler still wants Garza snapping him the ball in 2012. Spencer is then unneccesary either this year or next which also frees up a few million more in cap space. And you would still have a pick in each additional round to grab a LB, a WR, and a DB.

    I'd take that deal in a heartbeat at this point over a holdout or a whiny, pissed off Forte and future cap problems. Pure conjecture of course...probably 10% chance at most any of this happens, but just a scenario that seems possible and appealing.

  • #22
    Senior Member Grizzblue's Avatar
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    Yeah that would be a great deal if we could pull it off it could net us some good first round combos in round one

    Possibilitys:

    No trade

    Coples(maybe)
    Mercilious
    Wright
    Glenn
    Hill

    I would love any combo of theese players

    Trade up (11-13ish for pick 19 and our third)

    Coples(much more likely)
    Floyd (perfered)
    DeCastro (also perfered if avail)
    Reitff (im butchering this name i think OT iowa)

    Trade Down (25-30)
    Hill
    Konz(perfered)
    Zeilter(reach)



    Here is my quick mock for the rounds this would effect assuming we have browns pick 22 (no i dont think it will happen but its fun to think about!)




    Trade 19 and 3rd rounder for [11]

    [11] Floyd
    [22] Mercilous

    Rd 2- zeilter
    Rd 4-best avail
    Rd 5-best ILB avail
    Rd 6-Blanton (cb ND i may have f'ed up his name)
    Rd 7-BPA OL

  • #23
    Senior Member MPBears68's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzblue View Post
    Yeah that would be a great deal if we could pull it off it could net us some good first round combos in round one

    Possibilitys:

    No trade

    Coples(maybe)
    Mercilious
    Wright
    Glenn
    Hill

    I would love any combo of theese players

    Trade up (11-13ish for pick 19 and our third)

    Coples(much more likely)
    Floyd (perfered)
    DeCastro (also perfered if avail)
    Reitff (im butchering this name i think OT iowa)

    Trade Down (25-30)
    Hill
    Konz(perfered)
    Zeilter(reach)



    Here is my quick mock for the rounds this would effect assuming we have browns pick 22 (no i dont think it will happen but its fun to think about!)




    Trade 19 and 3rd rounder for [11]

    [11] Floyd
    [22] Mercilous

    Rd 2- zeilter
    Rd 4-best avail
    Rd 5-best ILB avail
    Rd 6-Blanton (cb ND i may have f'ed up his name)
    Rd 7-BPA OL
    By point value (a guide only), our 3rd [#79] is worth 195pts. That + #19 (875pts) gets you only to #14-15 in trade-up value. Since Couples's stock has been slipping lately and it looks sure that 3 QBs will be taken in the top 10, that just might be enough to secure him. To move up any higher than that would prob require putting another pick on the table or using the 2nd [#50]. I concocted my admittedly far-fetched scenario knowing that Konz has also been slipping a bit due to injury-recovery (he wasn't fully cleared yet to work out at the Combine) and that OC's don't tend to get drafted all that high in general. In short, he's probably draftable in the late 1st and Zeitler is probably so in the early 2nd. I'd really love to see the Bears add 2 big new pieces to their lines on both sides of the ball--both players who look like they can be promising starters for years to come. A trade down from #22 to about #29 nets us an additional late-3rd or a move down to about #25 nets us an additional late-4th, for example [KONZ territory]. Something like...

    1 [14/15]: Couples (DE)
    1 [25]: Konz (C/OG)
    2 [50]: Zach Brown (OLB)
    3 [79]: Traded
    4 [mid]: Greg Childs (WR)
    4 [late]: OT or LB or DB
    5-7: Depth/BPAs

    or maybe...

    1 [14/15]: Couples (DE)
    1 [25]: Konz (C/OG)
    2 [50]: Marvin Jones or Brian Quick (WR)
    3 [79]: Traded
    4 [mid]: Keenan Robinson or Tank Carder (LB)
    4 [late]: OT or LB or DB
    5-7: Depth/BPAs
    Last edited by MPBears68; 04-15-2012 at 07:21 PM.

  • #24
    Senior Member Grizzblue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MPBears68 View Post
    By point value (a guide only), our 3rd
    [#79] is worth 195pts. That + #19 (875pts) gets you only to #14-15 in trade-up value. Since Couples's stock has been slipping lately and it looks sure that 3 QBs will be taken in the top 10, that just might be enough to secure him. To move up any higher than that would prob require putting another pick on the table or using the 2nd [#50]. I concocted my admittedly far-fetched scenario knowing that Konz has also been slipping a bit due to injury-recovery (he wasn't fully cleared yet to work out at the Combine) and that OC's don't tend to get drafted all that high in general. In short, he's probably draftable in the late 1st and Zeitler is probably so in the early 2nd. I'd really love to see the Bears add 2 big new pieces to their lines on both sides of the ball--both players who look like they can be promising starters for years to come. A trade down from #22 to about #29 nets us an additional late-3rd or a move down to about #25 nets us an additional late-4th, for example [KONZ territory]. Something like...

    1 [14/15]: Couples (DE)
    1 [25]: Konz (C/OG)
    2 [50]: Zach Brown (OLB)
    3 [79]: Traded
    4 [mid]: Greg Childs (WR)
    4 [late]: OT or LB or DB
    5-7: Depth/BPAs

    or maybe...

    1 [14/15]: Couples (DE)
    1 [25]: Konz (C/OG)
    2 [50]: Marvin Jones or Brian Quick (WR)
    3 [79]: Traded
    4 [mid]: Keenan Robinson or Tank Carder (LB)
    4 [late]: OT or LB or DB
    5-7: Depth/BPAs
    Id love to draft konz he could be our center for 10 years amd let garza move back to gaurd

  • #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmors View Post
    OL is much more important position then RB.

    This trade would make sense because not only would address our biggest weakness (OL) for some time to come (most likely), we have a replacement for Forte in Bush. Will Bush be as productive as Forte? Probably not, but id do this deal in a heartbeat.
    not busting balls here but just to think about.

    Michael Bush was regarded as a TOP 5 PICK coming out in 08 but blew his knee up in college and fell hard in the draft. aside from last year as a half starter he racked up 970 yards in 9 games!!! thats about the same forte. Also scored 7 tds the only down side is was his ypc which we all know in chicago can be fixed quick look at backs like (jones, Benson, forte)

    truly i think Bush could handle the starting load pending his health. If we were to go into the playoffs i really think it will be be to him and the defense come time in those late december games when its cold and his ball pounding north/south running style

  • #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzblue View Post
    Id rather use him to try to move into the 6-12 range maybe go after decastro,couples or flloyd

    Its got a snowballs chance in hell of happening though i think if we could move him for a mid first round pick it would be a good move
    With a mid first there's a possibility of getting one of those three but unless we kicked in another pick of ours I don't think we'd get that high a pick. If a team in that #12-#15 range would give it up for Forte and a later or future pick I would do it for the right guy.
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  • #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by soulman View Post
    Without even reading farther I'll just say that if there is little if any likelihood that Matt Forte will accept the last offer the Bears gave him, and still have on the table, then I see little hope for a quick resolution and more chance of this dragging on into the summer months.

    No matter what he says now I do believe he will sign his franchise tender in July and come to camp. He's already out a ton of money from not getting an extension last year and I don't believe he'll fore go weekly paychecks of nearly $500k this fall. The real problem comes from the fact that he will continue to be a resentful unhappy camper and personally I don't think we need Matt Forte's negativity around when we're trying to win a SB.

    If a team will offer us the equivalent value of a #20 2012 first round pick for him I would do the deal in a heartbeat. I would not trade up with any other picks unless it was to get a guy like DeCastro or Coples and even then I wouldn't burn more than 3rd round pick which should get us to around #15 or a 3rd and another future pick to get to around #10-#12. I would not trade up a farther than that and then only for a very specific player. IMHO the real values in the first round start after #15 and even drafting at #19 and again in the low to mid 20's we'll have a number of very good players to choose from.

    Matt Forte can't go anywhere in 2012 and as I said I think the chances of him holding out are very very slim. So we're not in a position where we have to trade him but as draft day approaches his value will go up and if we can maximize that in a trade for a 2012 1st round pick to fill another hole I think we need to think about it very seriously. We can win without him and the thought of adding a top pass rusher and a LB, CB, or an OG with picks later in one or high in two if we trade back to me more than make up for losing a him. JMHO.
    The other scenario, soul, would be to keep our 19th overall pick and trade our second round pick plus the fourth rounder up to get back into the first round and draft someone like Kendall Wright or Stephen Hill as a WR. I do believe that most of our offensive problems at the skill positions would be solved by simply doing something like that, and we could still keep Forte. Windy and I have talked about this, and though he thinks we should go after that TE out of Clemson (can't think of his name), I kind of like the idea of kill two birds with one stone in the first round.

  • #28
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  • #29
    Senior Member Blue Horse-shoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bearsinhouston View Post
    The problem is that the Bears do not see the OL as a need. The fans do, but we don't make the calls.
    And so it goes .... in a passing league where our most potent player is supposed to 'make due' with a shit left tackle.

    RD 1 ) LT

    RD 2 ) DE - most see any DE we take in a rotation with Izzy. IF they spend their 1st rounder on a rotational player ...that's just stupid. Especially when a starting LT is in for every play.

    I'm tired of the Forte BS . If they can trade him and get that LT , do it. Cutler is more important than Forte . Period.

    That said I'd still be surprised if they trade him. If they do it'll probably happen at the last second, while they're "on the clock" , and the player they want is still on the board.

    Forte's a good player - not great. And over-paying HIM , is going to be detrimental to the TEAM in the long run.
    What should you call any : Fumble , Hold , Interception , Three and out , or Sack ?

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  • #30
    Senior Member Grizzblue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Horse-
    shoe;874479
    And so it goes .... in a passing league where our most potent player is supposed to 'make due' with a shit left tackle.

    RD 1 ) LT

    RD 2 ) DE - most see any DE we take in a rotation with Izzy. IF they spend their 1st rounder on a rotational player ...that's just stupid. Especially when a starting LT is in for every play.

    I'm tired of the Forte BS . If they can trade him and get that LT , do it. Cutler is more important than Forte . Period.

    That said I'd still be surprised if they trade him. If they do it'll probably happen at the last second, while they're "on the clock" , and the player they want is still on the board.

    Forte's a good player - not great. And over-paying HIM , is going to be detrimental to the TEAM in the long run.
    Only kalil and reitff would do in my book but id it can be done a potential great LT is more impirtant than an above average HB

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