Thread: Ex-Bears, Ex-Saint Brown on Player Punishments: "Dead wrong"

If in everyday life I were to pay someone to hurt someone else you'd better believe I'd go to jail and it would permanently go on my record. Some institutions such as the NFL are exempt. And that is why Goodell HAD to drop the hammer. I have much respect for the man. We know it would be easier to simply play a passive role.

Originally Posted by nelliewilson

If in everyday life I were to pay someone to hurt someone else you'd better believe I'd go to jail and it would permanently go on my record. Some institutions such as the NFL are exempt. And that is why Goodell HAD to drop the hammer. I have much respect for the man. We know it would be easier to simply play a passive role.

Nice picture of "Saint Roger". I personally don't like him because I think he jumps the gun too quickly in matters involving disciplining players before all the facts are gathered. However, with that said, we have seen a decrease in the number of off-field incidents since Goodell started laying down the law on these hooligans who go out and cause mischief.

Originally Posted by nelliewilson

Vilma's ego is bigger than the state of Texas.

Wow. Am I the only one who thinks it was a really bad move for Vilma to cry foul instead of roll with the punches? Now he's going to drag this out longer. He's the suspect but wants to be the victim. Talk about career-defining. I'm a little surprised that he wouldn't want to put this behind him and forget about it as soon as possible. Almost every article I've read seems to favor Vilma though. Some say that a two-game suspension is enough and I have to laugh at that. In my eyes what he did was criminal. Not only should he be suspended for a year there should also be some jail time as well. I think he was lucky not to be expelled from the league.

Public opinion of Vilma is taking a dive. I really hope Hargrove saves his own @ss and hangs Vilma out to dry.

Well after reading these articles my viewpoint about it has changed a bit. You're right about him trying to turn the tables to be made out as an innocent victim who was mislead by a bad coach. "Punish that coach but don't punish me". The "I was only following orders" defense has been beaten down so many times that it should be in some legal boneyard by now. It never works. Nobody put a gun to his head and he wasn't some rookie on the bubble who might have been cut if he didn't go along. He made bad choices.

The 1 year suspension is fair and he is lucky that it isn't longer if he's trying to play fast and loose with the league. When you go out with the express purpose of trying to take someone else's livelihood from them having your taken from you is a fair penalty in exchange. It's not criminal in their world but it should have civil repercussions and Goodell has seen to it that it does. Vilma was due to make $5.4 mil this year.

And the thlot pickens, LOL

Document: Anthony Hargrove was told to lie by Gregg Williams, Joe Vitt about bounty program



By Jason Cole | Yahoo! Sports – 44 minutes ago

Link; http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--an...y-scandal.html


Former New Orleans Saints defensive lineman Anthony Hargrove submitted a signed declaration to the NFL in April detailing how he was instructed to lie to the NFL by current and former Saints assistant coaches Joe Vitt and Gregg Williams in 2010 about the team's bounty program.


The declaration, obtained by Yahoo! Sports on Monday, was provided to the NFL by Hargrove through the NFL Players Association. A source said last week that the NFLPA submitted the declaration in hopes of proving that Hargrove and other Saints players were merely following orders by coaches.


The declaration has been of little help. Instead, the league used the declaration as additional proof of the bounty program when it decided the suspensions of four players, including Hargrove. Last week, Hargrove was suspended for eight games along with former teammates Scott Fujita (three games), Will Smith (four games) and Jonathan Vilma (the entire 2012 season). All four players appealed their suspensions on Monday.


"I don't know what the union was thinking when it provided the declaration," a source said. The source said the declaration only served as proof of Hargrove's involvement and backed up the contention by the league that other players were involved.


Messages to the NFL and NFLPA were not immediately returned.


In the declaration, which was signed by Hargrove on April 13, Hargrove said that on approximately Feb. 24, 2010, he was called into a meeting with Williams. Hargrove said Williams initially talked about football, saying that Hargrove would get a chance to start at defensive end in the following season.


The conversation then turned to the bounty program after Vitt joined in. Williams said the NFL was going to come to the Saints facility to ask about the bounty program. Williams also said "some people thought that [Hargrove] had told Vikings player Jimmy Kennedy about the existence of a 'bounty' on Brett Favre because" Hargrove was friends with Kennedy.

Hargrove said Williams then said he was going to deny the existence of any bounty system, and that both Williams and Vitt instructed Hargrove to do the same. Williams also said: "Those [expletives at the NFL] have been trying to get me for years" and if all the Saints "stay on the same page, this will blow over."


Hargrove said he met with an NFL security officer in March 2010 and did as instructed by Williams and Vitt, denying any knowledge of a bounty program. Hargrove said he never had any further discussion about the incident until March 2012, when NFLPA attorneys said the NFL would likely want to talk to Hargrove again.

NFLPA'S Defense of Hargrove, Vilma, Fujita, and Smith =



Anthony Hargrove's declaration to NFL regarding Saints bounty scandal

By Staff | Yahoo! Sports – 47 minutes ago

The following declaration, obtained by Yahoo! Sports on Monday, was provided to the NFL by former New Orleans Saints defensive lineman Anthony Hargrove through the NFL Players Association. A source said last week that the NFLPA submitted the declaration in hopes of proving that Hargrove and other Saints players were merely following orders by coaches.
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Oh, Good Luck with this Jonathan.

Vilma appeals suspension in Saints bounty case

By BRETT MARTEL | The Associated Press – 15 minutes ago

• FILE - This Oct. 30, 2011 file photo shows New Orleans Saints linebacker Jonathan Vilma on the sideline during the fourth quarter of an NFL football game …

NEW ORLEANS (AP) Saints linebacker Jonathan Vilma appealed his season-long suspension under the NFL's bounty investigation, which named him as a ringleader of the cash-for-hits system.


In papers filed Monday, Vilma argued that Commissioner Roger Goodell should not hear the appeal and asked for a delay in the process until the jurisdictional issue has been settled through NFL Players Association grievances filed last week.


Vilma's appeal also says the NFL has failed to presented evidence linking him to a system in which players were paid to injure opponents. It asks the league to provide documentation, including witness statements and the names of those witnesses.


Vilma was one of four players given suspensions of various lengths as a result of the NFL's bounty probe, along with Saints defensive end Will Smith (four games) and former Saints Anthony Hargrove (eight games) and Scott Fujita (three games).


The NFLPA sent the NFL a letter Monday reserving the other three players' appeal rights until the question of who hears the cases has been sorted out. Hargrove now is with Green Bay and Fujita with Cleveland.
''I disagree wholeheartedly with the discipline imposed,'' Fujita said in a statement emailed to The Associated Press. ''I've yet to hear the specifics of any allegation against me, nor have I seen any evidence that supports what the NFL alleges.


''I look forward to the opportunity to confront what evidence they claim to have in the appropriate forum,'' continued Fujita, a member of the NFLPA's executive committee. ''I have never contributed money to any so-called 'bounty' pool, and any statements to the contrary are false. To say I'm disappointed with the League would be a huge understatement.''


The players union grievances argue that Goodell is prohibited from punishing players for any aspect of the case occurring before the new collective bargaining agreement was signed last August. It argues that a CBA system arbitrator, and not Goodell, has the authority to decide player punishment under such circumstances, as well as rule on any appeals.


Vilma's latest filing not only reiterates those arguments but also states that the NFL still has not provided ''a single piece of evidence'' to the Saints defensive captain to justify the suspension handed down to him last Wednesday.


''To be able to share, discuss and analyze the supposed evidence that has been gathered is a fundamental cornerstone of a fair and just process, and a vital prerequisite to uncovering the truth,'' wrote Vilma's attorney, Peter Ginsburg. ''Indeed, the failure of the NFL to conduct itself in a just manner has compromised the process and resulted in erroneous and damaging conclusions.''


Vilma's legal team now wants to see if the league has evidence that would show Vilma pledged, made or received bounty payments - items such as account ledgers of improper cash bonuses, payment slips or other documents.


Vilma also asks to review any video or audio evidence that the NFL has, including video from games or any statistical analysis of Vilma's on-field performances.


Last week, former U.S. attorney Mary Jo White, who was hired by the NFL to evaluate its bounty investigation, said there was evidence from ''multiple independent sources'' that shows players received payments for hits on targeted opponents.


The NFL has said its investigation included 18,000 documents comprising nearly 50,000 pages.

White said the NFL has shared ample evidence with suspended players and the NFLPA, and she also said that concealing the identity of witnesses is important in terms of not only protecting those who help investigations but encouraging more to step forward in the future.


According to the league, Vilma offered $10,000 to any player who knocked then-Cardinals QB Warner out of a playoff game at the end of the 2009 season, and the same amount for knocking then-Vikings QB Favre out of that season's NFC championship game. The Saints beat the Vikings and then defeated Indianapolis to win their only Super Bowl title.


The Saints already have been punished heavily in connection with the bounties probe. Head coach Sean Payton has been suspended the entire 2012 season, while suspensions of eight games were handed down to general manager Mickey Loomis and six games to assistant head coach Joe Vitt. The club also was fined $500,000 and docked two second-round draft choices this year and next. Meanwhile, former Saints defensive coordinator Gregg Williams, who admitted to running the bounty program from 2009-11, has been suspended indefinitely. Williams is currently with the St. Louis Rams.

Well Nellie looks like your wife hit the nail on the head. They may not have the US Department of Justice working on it but it looks like next best thing. The NFL got one of their former attorneys so you know they did a financial forensics exam on these guys. Caught them in the act......redhanded!

Please tell your wife that should I ever come under suspicion that I never cooked the books in my business and I'm not hiding any assets from my ex-wife. So I have nothing to hide from her.

She sounds like a pretty clever lady.