Thread: Dan Pompei; Bears Appear Not To Value Forte as High as Others..............

So, are we to believe that Forte is so disingenuous that he can't even see through the self-implemented blinders he put on his face? You know, at one time, I was completely, 100% for Forte, but now I see him as a liar since went against his word that he would sign the tender in good faith while the negotiations raged on. Apparently, Ric is right about something he said in another thread - no agreement is sacred in the NFL.

I don't know about sacred but NFL contracts favor the team and not the player. A five year contract is really just the same as a one year contract with a series of one year team options. That's how BB would see it. Those deals are only guaranteed as far as the amount of the deal that is guaranteed which in many cases is nada. After it's executed it's a weekly contract. When you suit up and play you get your paycheck. If we cut you well then, too bad, so sad, thank you it's been nice having you and could you turn your playbook in before you go.

I don't begrudge these guys getting what they can but I wonder if any of them or their agents have ever taken a rudimentary course in basic economics. Something that covers present value of a sum to be received at a later date, cash flow streams, the time value of money or even how to make a three rail corner pocket bank shot in case they need to hustle pool after they hand 'em up.

I know most of their agents are attorneys and if they're like many I know these guys know more about Gucci loafers, silk suits and the current monthly cost of a lease on a BMW 750i than they do about basis economics. If they new how to do it I guess I wouldn't have been called to consult on the financial side of so many divorce cases or accident settlements. They hate to split fees.

Most of these deal that are advertised will payoff roughly half the advertised amount in three or four years and then you could wipe your ass with them as far as security goes. It's just plain old fashioned not there. I don't know, maybe the agent gets his commission up front on the total cash value of the deal which is the way contingent fees work with attorneys. If you get a million dollar settlement that pays out over ten years and their share is 1/3 rd they're gonna make sure there's enough cash coming out upfront to pay then their $333k. You can wait for yours.

Disclaimer: For my professional brethren in the legal profession. I'm not criticizing this. I know you fronted the costs of the lawsuit or negotiations if it's a contract matter. I'm just explaining. And seriously. Don't try to figure that numbers stuff out on your own. Send me a PM. I'm experienced, I'm good and my hourly rates are more reasonable than yours.

Since most of whats on TV sucks, and I was bored tonight. and felt like watching some fb .... I decided to watch some Bears games I have recorded, and drew a couple of conclusions watching Forte :
- while he is a good RB, his overall quickness is just a half tick slow ( otherwise he'd take more runs where he has daylight to the house )
- many of his big plays come catching the ball , but his lack of an extra half gear again hampers him
This is why I believe the Bears are sticking to their guns.

Besides .... when you get down to brass tax - the Bears are hell bent on resigning Cutler , and don't want a big contract to Forte standing in the way. Because of this, he either takes what they're offering , or he's history. And ... because he has a major problem with this - he's history ( after they get a couple more years outta him ). My .02

Originally Posted by soulman

I don't know about sacred but NFL contracts favor the team and not the player. A five year contract is really just the same as a one year contract with a series of one year team options. That's how BB would see it. Those deals are only guaranteed as far as the amount of the deal that is guaranteed which in many cases is nada. After it's executed it's a weekly contract. When you suit up and play you get your paycheck. If we cut you well then, too bad, so sad, thank you it's been nice having you and could you turn your playbook in before you go.

I don't begrudge these guys getting what they can but I wonder if any of them or their agents have ever taken a rudimentary course in basic economics. Something that covers present value of a sum to be received at a later date, cash flow streams, the time value of money or even how to make a three rail corner pocket bank shot in case they need to hustle pool after they hand 'em up.

I know most of their agents are attorneys and if they're like many I know these guys know more about Gucci loafers, silk suits and the current monthly cost of a lease on a BMW 750i than they do about basis economics. If they new how to do it I guess I wouldn't have been called to consult on the financial side of so many divorce cases or accident settlements. They hate to split fees.

Most of these deal that are advertised will payoff roughly half the advertised amount in three or four years and then you could wipe your ass with them as far as security goes. It's just plain old fashioned not there. I don't know, maybe the agent gets his commission up front on the total cash value of the deal which is the way contingent fees work with attorneys. If you get a million dollar settlement that pays out over ten years and their share is 1/3 rd they're gonna make sure there's enough cash coming out upfront to pay then their $333k. You can wait for yours.

Disclaimer: For my professional brethren in the legal profession. I'm not criticizing this. I know you fronted the costs of the lawsuit or negotiations if it's a contract matter. I'm just explaining. And seriously. Don't try to figure that numbers stuff out on your own. Send me a PM. I'm experienced, I'm good and my hourly rates are more reasonable than yours.

Soul, I apologize if sometimes it appears as if I'm not "with it" when you talk about the money stuff. I've never been a math person, nor do I profess to being one. I can tell when comparisons are made and we make analytical figures based on statistics of who is the better value in the long run for whom we should sign or trade. My field is as a historian and logician. I analyze the human condition and its history, and try to relate those things to how it affects people today. That's the reason why you see me writing so many analytical historical articles translating the Bears' past into the language that currently defines the Bears' present and impending future. That stuff - I get. Most people on here don't understand the significance of their collective histories, and ultimately as a result, it comes back to bite them in the ass. It was former British Prime Minister Winston Churchill who was quoted to have said, "Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it." (Philosopher George Santayana said something much like this, but used slightly different diction.) This is an opinion that has time-and-again been proven correct. Entire wars have been fought and lives lost as a result of the failure to grasp and comprehend this all-too-simple concept.

I am also a wordsmith. I used to almost always get A's on papers in school, whether that would have been elementary school, middle school, high school, or college. I know how to articulate my thoughts and opinions very well when I sit down and really analyze the heart of the matter and proofread to ensure that there are few content or grammatical errors. I don't usually toot my own horn, but I do take pride in the abilities I've mentioned in the past couple of paragraphs. I just wish I understood more the numbers aspect of what you tell us when it comes to dissecting contracts and negotiations. I will try to do more to correct that aspect of my being a contributing member of this message board so that I can understand every aspect of the game of professional football.

Originally Posted by Blue Horse-shoe

Since most of whats on TV sucks, and I was bored tonight. and felt like watching some fb .... I decided to watch some Bears games I have recorded, and drew a couple of conclusions watching Forte :
- while he is a good RB, his overall quickness is just a half tick slow ( otherwise he'd take more runs where he has daylight to the house )
- many of his big plays come catching the ball , but his lack of an extra half gear again hampers him
This is why I believe the Bears are sticking to their guns.

Besides .... when you get down to brass tax - the Bears are hell bent on resigning Cutler , and don't want a big contract to Forte standing in the way. Because of this, he either takes what they're offering , or he's history. And ... because he has a major problem with this - he's history ( after they get a couple more years outta him ). My .02

I think you're right. The Bears have made a determined effort to re-sign him and my opinion is they've made him a competitive offer but as I said in another post I think what he and his agent (or at least his agent) is looking for is THE most competitive offer or in other words one that beats the others. I think they want a deal that puts him at the top of that second tier group and the Bears aren't buying at that price.

Cliff Stein is just too good at knowing how to matrix their present and upcoming contract extensions and I think they have a hard line niche where they can fit him and that's what they've offered. More than that they're unwilling to do. As I pointed out in other posts most of these deal that are being handed out are only worth about half the advertised price anyway so if he can be reasonably assure of getting 60% to 75% his deal over the first two to three years he should take it and be happy that with the Bears and their loyalty to core players he may stand a better chance than some of collecting all of it.

I think sox said it best when he posted that with Cutler and Forte we go to a Super Bowl but without Cutler and with Forte we may qualify for a top 5 pick. That may be a bit of an exaggeration but the key to that offense isn't Matt Forte.

Originally Posted by Dagan81

Soul, I apologize if sometimes it appears as if I'm not "with it" when you talk about the money stuff. I've never been a math person, nor do I profess to being one. I can tell when comparisons are made and we make analytical figures based on statistics of who is the better value in the long run for whom we should sign or trade. My field is as a historian and logician. I analyze the human condition and its history, and try to relate those things to how it affects people today. That's the reason why you see me writing so many analytical historical articles translating the Bears' past into the language that currently defines the Bears' present and impending future. That stuff - I get. Most people on here don't understand the significance of their collective histories, and ultimately as a result, it comes back to bite them in the ass. It was former British Prime Minister Winston Churchill who was quoted to have said, "Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it." (Philosopher George Santayana said something much like this, but used slightly different diction.) This is an opinion that has time-and-again been proven correct. Entire wars have been fought and lives lost as a result of the failure to grasp and comprehend this all-too-simple concept.

I am also a wordsmith. I used to almost always get A's on papers in school, whether that would have been elementary school, middle school, high school, or college. I know how to articulate my thoughts and opinions very well when I sit down and really analyze the heart of the matter and proofread to ensure that there are few content or grammatical errors. I don't usually toot my own horn, but I do take pride in the abilities I've mentioned in the past couple of paragraphs. I just wish I understood more the numbers aspect of what you tell us when it comes to dissecting contracts and negotiations. I will try to do more to correct that aspect of my being a contributing member of this message board so that I can understand every aspect of the game of professional football.

Dags our entire lives consist of instances where we didn't learn from a past mistake, or at least mine has. There will always be a basic truth to that among the living and even spiritually there are those who believe you relive in another live that which you failed at most miserably in a prior one. All for the good of reaching a higher level of consciousness as a living human being.

I'm an analyst and numbers are most of my existence on a daily basis and they have been for most of my adult and even pre-adult life. Sorry if I blow anyone away with this shit but I tend to think in numbers. Even music has it's own numbering system. You're a Tennessee boy so ask a guitarist if he's knows what the "Nashville System" is. Basically musical chord progressions are numbered one through seven and you refer to the progression by those numbers not by the name of the notes or chords. It simplifies things in the recording studio. If you know a songs numerical progression you can play it in any key. Well that's that.

I know a fair amount about human nature as it relates to negotiations as well but just because I've done so many. It's not that I'm highly educated. I'm not. I've just done it a lot so I tend to think that way where others go a different direction. It's just how each of us processes against our own frames of reference. I like numbers because for the most part they're absolute, not abstract. In our world we tend to accept that one and one will always equal two.

This business side of football will always have it's emotions in it but when it comes right down to it the numbers are the numbers. teams have only so much to spend on their roster and while they can get inventive and think outside of the box a bit if they go too far they get in trouble like Dallas and Washington did over that un-capped year. Sometimes feeling get hurt because there isn't enough $$$ to give a guys every penny he believes he's worth but it is a team sport and some players need to understand they're not the only one due a paycheck.

Like Lovie said it's not all about one person.

Goodbye Matt Forte. It was nice having you around playing for the Bears.

uhg...
bad situation for us.

what we have?
Bush for the next 4 years. He can be our #1 next year paired with Bell. They are good enough. Bush has much football left
Bell showed he can be a 80+ yard RB and as #2 RB he would be good enough

Allen, Unga and UDFAs compete for the #3/4 spot.



whats our options now?

1. Overpay for him and regret it in the end. Fortes #s are not as good as those of the higher paid RBs.
2. wait for him to sign the FT and lose him for nothing the next year. If he holds out, chances that he has a bad season are bigger
3. Forte signs a fair deal for both teams. I don't think this will happen. Forte and the Bears aren't even close