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Thread: At Least One Reason Why Forte Isn't Worth LeSean McCoy's Price.............

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    At Least One Reason Why Forte Isn't Worth LeSean McCoy's Price.............

    Bears might have to pay for Matt Forte’s silence

    BY MARK POTASH mpotash@suntimes.com May 21, 2012 11:06PM



    Bears running back Matt Forte breaks away for his second quarter touchdown run as the Chicago Bears defeated the Carolina Panthers 34-29 Sunday October 2, 2011 at Soldier Field. | Tom Cruze~Sun-Times






    Updated: May 22, 2012 10:12AM


    Now that the Philadelphia Eagles have given running back LeSean McCoy a five-year, $45 million contract with $20.8 million guaranteed, it’s time for the Bears to pay Matt Forte what he’s worth.


    After all, what’s the difference between Matt Forte and LeSean McCoy? Besides the fact that McCoy scored 20 touchdowns last year and Forte scored four.


    And besides the fact that McCoy scored 12 touchdowns on 32 carries inside the 10-yard line last season and Forte scored one touchdown on 12 carries inside the 10. And besides the fact that McCoy scored 10 touchdowns inside the 2-yard line last season and Forte scored none.


    And besides the fact that McCoy played in 15 games last season (he was held out of a meaningless Week 17 game with a sprained ankle) while Forte played in 12 games and missed the last five with a sprained knee ligament.


    And besides the fact that McCoy is 23 years old with 801 touches in the NFL and Forte is 26 with 1,237 touches in the NFL.


    And besides the fact that McCoy never whined about outplaying his rookie contract despite making the Pro Bowl twice in his first three seasons while Forte moped through the 2011 season, producing career numbers but rarely hiding his displeasure with his contract situation. (Though McCoy didn’t have to play out the final year of his rookie deal nor endure the indignity of the dreaded franchise tag as Forte did.)

    Besides all those apparently inconsequential factors, they’re the same exact player. So what’s taking Bears general manager Phil Emery and chief negotiator Cliff Stein so long? Just give Forte his $20 million, and let’s get on with the much-anticipated 2012 season.
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    Mello Jello soulman's Avatar
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    I posted this a in couple of other threads as well but thought it deserved to be highlighted since we've been talking about this a bit over the past week.

    I've always said that one of Forte's drawbacks as a complete RB is that he is not a good short yardage or goaline runner. Now LeSean McCoy may be exceptional in comparison but one of the things you get the big bucks for in MLB is hitting home runs and in the NFL the equivalent to that is putting the ball in the end zone. I that regard Matt Forte simply doesn't stack up against the best.

    It may also be worth it to note that McCoy is also a smaller back than Forte. Once of the reasons we spent $2.5 mil on MB III last years why we signed Michael Bush for 4 years at $3.5 mil per year is the fact that Matt Forte doesn't find the end zone often enough and Bush excels at it.

    If he's upset because Bush may have gotten some of his money he needs to wake up and realize that he'll also get most if not all of his carries when the ball is inside the ten or we have a 3rd and two. Matt Forte is just not a good short yardage back.
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    Member JJ-30's Avatar
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    Since you reposted I will too.

    McCoy had 17 rushing TDs vs 3 for Forte. Matt Forte had 40 rushing first downs last year, McCoy had 84. 30% of McCoy's rushes went for first downs, compared to just 19% of Forte's rushes. McCoy also edged him in runs of 20+ yards. The only category where Forte clearly did better was receiving stats, and even then the separation was not as big as you'd expect in most categories.

    The only stat that was really comparable was YPC.

    And in the most important category, total TDs, it was 20 to 4 in favor of McCoy.

    Plus, as mentioned, McCoy is younger.

    One player is clearly more productive for his team overall, and it's not Matt Forte

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    Senior Member Riczaj01's Avatar
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    really, so being 45% of your teams Offensive yardage isn't productive enough? Essentially every time the team scored 45% of that reason was Forte; he might not of been the one scoring, but he was the reason they were in position to do the scoring.

    Also Who does the D Philly is playing have to game plan for besides McCoy? Lets count the players on that O that mean more then McCoy does:
    Vick, Desean Jackson, Celek(probably tied w/McCoy). And they have a better OL? Better Offensive lines make it easier for RB's to get short yardage/TD's?

    Yardage matters last I checked, and no RB has more yardage then Forte besides AP and CJ. Forte also has more big plays 20 and 40+ in passing and rushing then McCoy, take that back, Sean has more 20+ yards plays by 2(in 4 more games). SO even w/D's having to game plan only for Forte/Cutler(but really when Cutler has no legit wr weapons he's limited), he's been more of the O, more big plays, and really call it what it is, the same yardage(four less games 400 less yards). YPA are the same, but YPC are 3 yards in favor of Forte.

    Firsts/TD's heavily in favor of McCoy, bet those #'s get closer this year when Marshall/Jefferies are on the field though. What won't be different is the big plays and yardage that Forte will eat up as teams will be forced to double Marshal and man up on Jefferies.

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    Member JJ-30's Avatar
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    Sorry but in the NFL they don't give a damn about the past. The Bears were willing to pay him last year but he didn't like the deal. When you have below average WR and don't use you TE other then to do block who is left to get Offensive yardage the QB and RB and you sure don't want it to be your QB.

    Now lets move on to this year what do we have we have a #1 WR, a rookie wR that should be damn good, along with two other WR that should be better, just because of the other two. We will be using our TE better this year more then in the past. Plus we have added another good RB. The days of Forte getting as you put it 45% of your teams offensive yardage are gone. Sure Forte will still be a great part of our offense, unfortunately for him he was worth more to the Bears last year then he will be this year or in the future. I have no idea how much the Bears are willing to go to get a deal done, all I know is right now Forte wants more the the Bears are willing to pay him.


    Quote Originally Posted by Riczaj01 View Post
    really, so being 45% of your teams Offensive yardage isn't productive enough? Essentially every time the team scored 45% of that reason was Forte; he might not of been the one scoring, but he was the reason they were in position to do the scoring.

    Also Who does the D Philly is playing have to game plan for besides McCoy? Lets count the players on that O that mean more then McCoy does:
    Vick, Desean Jackson, Celek(probably tied w/McCoy). And they have a better OL? Better Offensive lines make it easier for RB's to get short yardage/TD's?

    Yardage matters last I checked, and no RB has more yardage then Forte besides AP and CJ. Forte also has more big plays 20 and 40+ in passing and rushing then McCoy, take that back, Sean has more 20+ yards plays by 2(in 4 more games). SO even w/D's having to game plan only for Forte/Cutler(but really when Cutler has no legit wr weapons he's limited), he's been more of the O, more big plays, and really call it what it is, the same yardage(four less games 400 less yards). YPA are the same, but YPC are 3 yards in favor of Forte.

    Firsts/TD's heavily in favor of McCoy, bet those #'s get closer this year when Marshall/Jefferies are on the field though. What won't be different is the big plays and yardage that Forte will eat up as teams will be forced to double Marshal and man up on Jefferies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Riczaj01 View Post
    really, so being 45% of your teams Offensive yardage isn't productive enough? .
    This is the part that gets me every damn time. People talk about him being 45% of the offense because he is that damn good (and maybe he is) and fail to mention that outside of him the Bears had no other options that were a threat at all. They had just one WR (half the season they had no real WR threat when Bennett was out) who was any good. He was 45% of the offense out of necessity.

    Do you honestly think that if the Bears had any legit threat on offense besides him that he would be 45% of the offense? Because I don't. Watch this year, he will be lucky to be a third if not less.

    McCoy>Forte and is younger. He is not worth what McCoy got.

    Add in that teams are going to pay you for what you WILL do, not what you HAVE done. So why pay someone to be nearly half your offense when he wont even get close to that percentage again?
    Last edited by The Benjamin; 05-22-2012 at 03:46 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Benjamin View Post
    Add in that teams are going to pay you for what you WILL do, not what you HAVE done. So why pay someone to be nearly half your offense when he wont even get close to that percentage again?
    Thanks, Benji. This pretty much sums it up. Now sit down, sign the deal and let's move on. Please!

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    TDs make a big difference. I can't tell you how many times I've been frustrated watching the Bears kick FGs because Forte couldn't punch it in. Sometimes TDs are the difference between getting the real big money. Percentage of offense isn't as big as you think. You wouldn't a 1600yd WR who gets 15TDs a season the same as a 1600yd WR who only gets in the end zone 2-3xs a year.

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    Senior Member Riczaj01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Benjamin View Post
    This is the part that gets me every damn time. People talk about him being 45% of the offense because he is that damn good (and maybe he is) and fail to mention that outside of him the Bears had no other options that were a threat at all. They had just one WR (half the season they had no real WR threat when Bennett was out) who was any good. He was 45% of the offense out of necessity.

    Do you honestly think that if the Bears had any legit threat on offense besides him that he would be 45% of the offense? Because I don't. Watch this year, he will be lucky to be a third if not less.

    McCoy>Forte and is younger. He is not worth what McCoy got.

    Add in that teams are going to pay you for what you WILL do, not what you HAVE done. So why pay someone to be nearly half your offense when he wont even get close to that percentage again?
    Benj, that's my point HE HAS NO ONE ELSE, every team knows he's getting the ball, and yet he's still the reason for the Offfense. Again swtich McCoy and Forte and the only thing that changes is Forte get's more big plays and TD's and McCoy is getting less TD's and less big plays; why b/c McCoy has no one around him to keep those D players honest, they crowd the hell out of the line. Now I'll admit, Forte doesn't have 20 td's, and McCoy has more then 4 td's. But it's not they are closer to even. But the big plays and yards are even more of a disparagement in favor of Forte.

    And I know TD's matter, I'm not discounting them; but when people talk about Walter, or Gayle or Sanders or Emmitt, they don't talk about their TD's or their First downs, they talk about the yards they gained. It's important it's what keeps the team moving on O, give's the D a rest, and allows the team to eventually put points on the board.

    JJ they have to give a damn what you did in the past, they have no idea what you are going to do in the future if they don't look at your past performance. If they didn't look at the past no one would get anything other then bottom end contracts.
    Last edited by Riczaj01; 05-22-2012 at 06:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBadPapaBear View Post
    TDs make a big difference. I can't tell you how many times I've been frustrated watching the Bears kick FGs because Forte couldn't punch it in. Sometimes TDs are the difference between getting the real big money. Percentage of offense isn't as big as you think. You wouldn't a 1600yd WR who gets 15TDs a season the same as a 1600yd WR who only gets in the end zone 2-3xs a year.
    And the fact that he doesn't put it in the end-zone is huge , when you consider something I heard on NFL Network about a week ago which is this : the avg margin of victory in most games is 4 points. That equates exactly to the difference between td's vs. field goals.

    Yes , he does a good job moving the chains - but he leaves you standing at the altar.

    This O is going to be better this year. They're all going to make each other look better. He'd be a fool to sit any of it out and not share in the spoils. I don't know if it's his agent or his ego that's driving this stupidity ( though I suspect it's some of both ) - but if he doesn't get realistic and wake up .... he's gonna have regrets.
    What should you call any : Fumble , Hold , Interception , Three and out , or Sack ?

    A " F.H.I.T.S " ? or a J'Marcus ?

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