Thread: Urlacher Doubts Bears and Forte Close to a Deal............

Originally Posted by Riczaj01

Think this leads to the point I've been saying, the Bears were never really interested in giving him a long term deal to begin with. Problem w/that, they lied last year to get him into camp by saying they were. Should have been straight forward and said, come to camp show up, and we'll either agree to a deal or let you test FA. They(well w/in the rules) via the FT are fucking him out of any long term deal he could have gotten. Not saying they are wrong to do so, but it again, is a dog move on their part(if all of this is true).

I don't see him as a high milage back in the same case as others though b/c so much of his runs are not up the middle getting hit b/y the DL, at least not compared to your standard back. This sounds more like an excuse they are leaking. IF he's looking for more then 20 mil he's lost his mind though. Not gonna happen at 26.

My only problem w/the reduced role theory, is that even if he gets less touches his production could remain the same or in the case of TD's could go up b/c of the D not being able to center around him. His 20 and 40+ yards play speak to his ability to hit the home runs; now add to that teams having to double team Marshal, put a guy on Jefferies and instead of 10 in the box you have 7 and those big plays get bigger, even w/less touches.

Horse Shit! (just in case the smilie didn't say it all)

The Bears wanted to get a deal with him but they weren't willing to do it on his terms. Not if he was looking for a $40 mil deal with $20 guaranteed right off the bat. If that rumor is true (and I believe after what DWill got it has to be close) then to a point it would explain why the Bears started where they did as far as their initial offer.

I've said this before. When two sides go into negotiations if one of them makes a demand the other feels is ridiculous and way out of the ballpark they tend to respond in kind. So the other guy start with a highball and you low ball in return and then you work towards the middle and a solution right? But what happens when one side won't move off their initial stance? That's the reason the two Korea's are still officially at war but have suspended fighting over a truce. There can be no compromise if one side isn't willing to do it.

If you walk into most car dealerships you'd find that the prices they're asking for used cars are very inflated in most cases. I think we can all agree with that. So you find one you like and you check your blue book for it's average resale value and it's $17,000. You ask the sales guy what he'll let it go for and he says well just like the sticker says we want $21,000.

Most people would be offended by an obvious attempt to rob them so what to they do? They come back with the lowest possible wholesale price they can find and say that car's not worth a penny over $14,000. OK so your objective, if you want to get the deal done, should be to get it for a little less than $17,000 if you can and his objective, if he wants to make the sale, should be to get a little more than $17,000 if he can. So somewhere along the line you end up at $16,500 and he's at $17,500 and maybe with one more swing you guys come to some agreement and when he lets you win at $16,900 and then of course he tacks on the $200 dealer handling and advertising fee they charge on all sales and you both got what you wanted. You drive home in your new car and he earns his commission. Win/Win.

But what happens if he says you're quoting me wholesale and we not selling wholesale. (neither was Forte). You know he's right so you raise your offer to $15,000 and wait for a counter offer. He says still $21,000 and worth every penny. Now you're pissed and you walk away you look at some other cars but you realize that the first one you looked at is the one you really want and the book says it's worth $17,000 and even though you'd like to get it for less you bite the bullet and go back willing to pay full retail price, $17,000.

So you drive onto the lot and the sales guy comes out to greet you again. You jump out and tell him your ready to make a deal you want to buy and your willing to offer the full resale book price, $17,000. He looks at you, chuckles and says nope, still $21,000 and worth every penny.

So are you gonna pay him more than that car is worth to you or are you gonna walk away and look for another car?

Ric I know you're not advocating we give him upwards of $20 mil in guarantees either but I would swear the example I just did above isn't too far off from what's happened so far. If Urlacher is beginning to say he needs to be realistic. None of us get what we think we're worth then as a team leader he sending a message. It's subtle but it's there. If Urlacher steps up and does it how much longer until Cutler says something similar. He's already told him publicly he expects him to be there when the season opens.

Their messages to Matt Forte are pretty clear to me. We hope you get your deal because we know you deserve it but at some point you need to be realistic. They hold all the winning cards and you can't get what you want so get what you can and get in here.

I don't know. Maybe this whole knee thing is nothing but propaganda to support the Bears side. It came from the Trib and they are notorious Bears supporters so who knows. I think there's some truth to it but I think too much is being made of it. He's been playing pretty well on those knees for quite a while now.

I strongly suspect the knee issues are being overstated.... 100Lbs sled up hill i think my knee will be ok RT @nfl: Bears concerned with Matt Forte's knees: http://t.co/hexL2zOj - Matt Forte - Twitvid , also Matt Forte responds to report about knee concerns - NFL.com . Also, just because the franchise SAYS they are going to use him less, does not mean they WILL. This could include every thing from plans changing after the first play of the game, to "you play your best players the most" (the best w.hore gets fvcked the most), or the "plan" could even change between the time the ink is on the paper to the time the pen hits the desk. This wouldn't be the first time that an employer has said they were reducing hours so we are reducing your pay, and then, after the contract is signed, INCREASED the hours WITHOUT increasing the pay.

The bottom line is this, Forte has provided 1400+ yards of offense per year. period. Whether this has been Turners' "we get off the bus running" offense, or Mad Mikes pass happy aerial attack. Without a "guarantee" (significant pay increases based on usage written into the contract) there is just no real way for Forte to know whether the bears are going to hold to the "we are going to use you less" statement once negotiations are completed. On the other hand, we do know how the bears have used Forte each of the past 4 years. And if past performance is the strongest indicator of future potential, would not past usage be the strongest indicator of future intentions? I find the "he will be used less" idea to be exactly that, an idea. To be filed in the "I'll believe it when I see it" category....

Notes: there is a significant amount of "devils' advocate" going on in this post. While I do think that the Bears INTEND to use him less, I suspect it will be more of a 80-20 or 75-25 split rather than the 90-10 that is has been in the past.
Also, I'm of the opinion that the issue is a bit more from the franchises side. But I'm considering that the Bears have NEVER set the market at any position, including coaches(this is why the Bears have a bit of a rep for being cheap, deserved or not). I'm also looking at the Kreutz negotiations from last off season. Then there is the way Forte has been a pure professional from day one, to choosing to spend his own money on an outside analyst to help improve his running (I think it was after his 2nd season), the way he was, in essence, told last season to "put up or shut up" went on to "put up" to the tune of going to a pro bowl, and the way he (foolishly) trusted the franchise to "get a deal done" last year as an indication of Forte's loyalty to the franchise. Loyalty, alone of all virtues, must be rewarded. Not doing so will be regarded as a betrayal.

I may not be right, but in the absence of evidence, I'm willing to agree to disagree until there is proof.

Xaos I think part of the problem may be that Forte wants to set the market. We have no clear idea of what's been asked vs what's been offered. The best I could do was cobble some numbers together based on what seemed most logical and that tells me what the Bears have offered him falls kind of in middle of these five deals that were done in the last year. I've excluded AP and CJ from that group but I did include Arian Foster with the 2nd tier bunch.

Two of these contract are four year deals two are five year deals and one for six year. The average contract is for $31.3 mil total and guarantees $18.6 mil. The average annual income to the end of these deal is $7.8 mil although that number could come down by as much as $1 mil if players don't finish out these entire contracts. I'm sure in a couple of instances they will not so around $7.5 mil may be a better average.

So, what I believe is that the Bears have offered 4 years on terms somewhere in the range of these averages. There are enough to pick from to establish a range. So the Bears are somewhere in the middle having come up from where they stood last fall but I still think that Matt believes he should be paid as well as the top of this range.

I think the stumbling block is and always has been the amount guaranteed and the length of the deal which then controls the amount. Well whatever amounts beyond the guarantee that are due in later years may or may not ever be paid so the real focus is on that guarantee and it seems they're a few mil apart. Personally I think it's gonna stay that way until Matt lowers his demands. JMHO

Based on all this information, seems to me the Bears, now - more than ever, are the perfect team for Forte; he'll be an integral part of the offense, but won't have to carry it on his back. He won't see anywhere near as many touches as he's seen, saving himself from wear & tear and saving the team from having to flush the RB corps every off-season. He's already got a built-in fan base and a guy who'll spell him at the goal line.

The only thing holding all this up is the perception of what that's all worth.

To the Bears, it's not 'McCoy Money,' to Forte, it's...

Well, I'm not sure what he thinks it's worth. Whatever it is, it's holding everything up.

Edit: Then again, this could wind up reeking of Phillips.

Does it seem interesting that the two high profile RB's who are having contract issues with their teams are both clients of Adisa Bakari. Jones-Drew got a new deal in 2009 that guaranteed him $17.5 mil including a $9 mil SB. Now he wants his deal re-done because he's only gonna make about $5 mil this year.

Maybe Bakari and Rosenhaus went to the same "agent school". Sometimes ya' gotta wonder how much of whatever is in Forte's head about his worth is what being put there by Bakari. Well no rush. They've got until 7/16 to get realistic about what the Bears can pay him if he wants a longer term deal.