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Thread: Ex players side w/Forte, but gives credence to concerns about holdouts

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    Senior Member Riczaj01's Avatar
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    Ex players side w/Forte, but gives credence to concerns about holdouts

    http://espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/story...ing-matt-forte

    Melissa Isaacson | ESPNChicago.com
    Forte: 'I'm Really Optimistic'
    CHICAGO -- As the last days of June melt into July and football talk in Chicago occupies a legitimate spot on the sports landscape rather than just acting as a time-killer to avoid Cubs talk, the Matt Forte issue will become much more of a Bears issue.
    Whereas past debate hinged on whether Forte was worthy of a contract longer and more substantial than the one-year, $7.7 million the team's franchise tag will afford him, it will soon become bigger than Forte.
    The Bears love this because they will contend that the team is always bigger than one player and his individual contract demands. But what might bite them in the backside if they're not careful is how their dealings with one of their most valuable and popular players could affect the delicate balance of the entire team in a season many predict could be special.
    To a man, athletes will almost always back each other when it comes to contract issues. But with a little distance, former athletes can be more objective, a little more candid when no longer worried about peer pressure and team loyalty.
    That said, some former NFL stars who gathered in Chicago on Friday afternoon for a flag football game to promote "Madden NFL 13" were just as outspoken and, in some cases, surprisingly angry over the Bears' treatment of Forte.
    Hall of Famer Michael Irvin said the Bears are treading in dangerous territory right now.
    "People can say, well, [the Bears] have time, they can [sign him] before the season," Irvin said. "But, no, you don't. In OTAs is when you put things together. Now is when guys start saying, 'Wow, we look good, we have a chance to be part of something special.' And then they go back and put in special work leading up to training camp.
    "If you wait until training camp, you've missed all this opportunity to prepare for the season. You've already missed the message that we're here for one reason. Now all the other guys on the team are saying, 'Why should I work hard if you're going to treat him like that? They're never going to pay me either.' It sends a horrible message, a horrible message."
    The "Wow, we look good" that Irvin described is actually exactly the aura the Bears were putting out during OTAs and minicamp over the past month. Jay Cutler and Brandon Marshall were finding their groove; Devin Hester looked ecstatic, Brian Urlacher and Lance Briggs rejuvenated and the coaching staff invigorated, as well, with a new offensive coordinator, quarterbacks coach and various other additions and changes.
    Cutler alone was so cheerful, it was contagious. And a happy Cutler is sure to go a long way toward team harmony.
    But it was also three months before the season opener. And based on his June 13 comments on "The Waddle & Silvy Show," it came from a place of summer optimism rather than hard-bitten realism.
    "I would be shocked if [Forte] doesn't sign his tender by July 15, or whenever it is, and he shows up," Cutler said. "It would really be a surprise to me [if Forte misses any training camp]."
    If Cutler's words were any reflection of the way his teammates look at Forte's situation, then they are not prepared for any kind of a holdout, prolonged or otherwise. And Irvin is right. That's precisely the sort of wrinkle that can disrupt an otherwise positive and productive training camp.
    ESPN analyst and former eight-time Pro Bowl receiver Cris Carter was downright irritated with the Bears for, as he sees it, misusing the franchise tag to double-cross their own player.
    "What has he done since they drafted him that they asked him to do [and] he couldn't do?" Carter said. "The reason why you're supposed to franchise someone, the reason why they made the rule, is so you can tag your key players and [eventually] sign them to long-term contracts. But the Bears are like some other teams and that's not the way they use it. They use it to kind of trap you and utilize the rules against you.
    "Instead of trying to sign you to a long term, they're trying to sign you to one or two deals. Sign you to a one-year tender this year, then re-up next year for [another] franchise [tag] so they have you for two years. They don't have to make a long-term commitment. So I understand Forte. I wouldn't come. I wouldn't play, I wouldn't go out there until they gave me my contract."
    Forte said Friday that he was "optimistic" because at least he and his agent are still in talks with the Bears. But he also allowed there's a chance he'll hold out of training camp and a "slight chance" he could end up not playing at all this season.
    The Bears will tell you, and so will many NFL experts, that they might not need him, that solid NFL running backs are plentiful and that Michael Bush will be more than adequate with their revamped and improved passing game. And they might be right.
    But Forte's friends and teammates aren't likely to forget him. And they're not likely to forget how management treated him. The '85 Bears managed to focus just fine despite the holdouts of Todd Bell and Al Harris. But not every team is the '85 Bears.
    "When a guy gets an opportunity now to get his money, it's more important now than ever in the NFL to get his money," Carter said. "The next year, the Bears will be done with him, let him go. [But] he's put his work in, he's done exactly what you want a young player to do, you're supposed to pay him. You get drafted, you perform like a Pro Bowler, then they pay you. But there's certain teams in this league, that's not what they're trying to do
    Last edited by Riczaj01; 06-23-2012 at 08:38 AM.

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    Senior Member Riczaj01's Avatar
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    Time for Bears, Matt Forte to compromise BY JOE COWLEY jcowley@suntimes.com June 23, 2012 12:44AM

    storyidforme: 32496243
    tmspicid: 11871606
    fileheaderid: 5424207
    Matt Forte thinks he’s an elite running back in the NFL — at least among the top five. That’s the money he wants, and that’s the money he thinks he deserves from the Bears.

    Someone is lying to Forte. Or maybe Forte is lying to himself.


    Here’s what an elite running back gets paid these days. The Philadelphia Eagles’ LeSean McCoy got a
    five-year deal for $45 million with just more than
    $20 million guaranteed. The Houston Texans’ Arian Foster got a five-year deal
    for $43.5 million with
    $20.75 million guaranteed.
    McCoy scored 17 rushing touchdowns and Foster 10 last season. Forte scored three rushing touchdowns in 2011. Other players who scored three rushing touchdowns last season include slow-footed quarterback Tom Brady and backup running backs Bernard Scott and Isaac Redman.
    No, Matt, you’re not a top-five back. You’re versatile, you can catch the ball, but you’re not a top-five back.
    But that doesn’t mean the Bears shouldn’t give him an extension. Forte is a five-year, $35 million back with
    $16 million guaranteed right now. Done.
    Ads by Google






    And if the Bears can’t jump into that side of the pool, then the message they will continue to send is that they’re an organization that’s hard to take seriously.
    ‘‘We always measure up men compared to what other people are doing,’’ Hall of Fame receiver Michael Irvin said Friday. ‘‘Reality is — and that’s how Chicago has to look at it — [Forte] is your elite, and that’s the key. And since he is your elite, you send a bad message when you don’t take care of your elite.’’
    Irvin, who is an analyst with the NFL Network, was in town Friday to participate in the annual Madden
    NFL ’13 Pigskin Pro-Am.
    ‘‘The Playmaker’’ and I don’t have a ton in common, but we did agree about the Bears. They remain an organization with big-time aspirations and a small-time mentality.
    ‘‘Teams like the Steelers, New England, the Packers, the 49ers, they are pushing in all the marbles,’’ Irvin said. ‘‘The Bears go out and get Brandon Marshall . . . you can’t go out and get Brandon Marshall and then have this [Forte situation] and say you’re pushing all the chips on the table.
    ‘‘The guys here were all talking, and a few said, ‘Oh, the Bears won’t lose anything now with Forte not in camp.’ Shut up. That’s not true. Let me tell you what they are losing, for those of you who have never built a championship: Right now in OTAs, minicamps, everyone is looking around the field together, saying: ‘Wow, we’ve got a squad. Look at Brandon Marshall. Look at Devin Hester. Look at Forte. Damn, look at Jay Cutler. . . . This could be the year.’
    ‘‘But the Bears are coming out now, and not everything is in order. Now everyone is more like: ‘Yeah, maybe we have something. Maybe.’ It limits the amount of work people will put in. Hope will dictate effort. If I know I have real hope to get to a Super Bowl, you’re putting in all kind of extra work. This is what the Bears are missing. This is how you build a championship, and this is why it’s been awhile for them.’’
    Former All-Pro receiver Cris Carter took it a step further.
    ‘‘This is what the Bears need to ask themselves: ‘Are we serious about trying to win the Super Bowl?’ ’’ Carter said. ‘‘Then sit down and look at what they’ve done because what they’ve done will
    tell you if they’re trying to win a Super Bowl.’’
    They’re not. The handling of the Forte situation is just the latest evidence of that.
    Maybe when Forte realizes he’s just outside that first tier of running backs and
    the Bears realize their window on this season is open but closing fast, harmony can come.
    Then again, maybe all the parties involved prefer to keep lying to themselves.


    I agree 16 mil 35 tot is right in the range both should be looking at. But I disagree that he's not elite....probably not top 5 though, but to discount his passing TD's and only look at his rushing ones is poor journalism at it's best. Marshal Faulk got into the HoF not just b/c of his rushing yards and td's, but b/c of his rec yards and td's also, you cannot discount one from the other; and in a passing league it's more and more important your rb can do it.

    but i think that the fact the two sides are negotiating right now; w/out the FT being signed is a sign that both sides ARE trying to compromise.

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    Member omc1969's Avatar
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    Irvin is a jerk and Carter isn't far behind. The Bears have always come to terms with their players. Even Briggs was taken care of. There is NO history with a lot of holdouts like there is with some other teams. BOTH sides are trying to work things out and I'm confident that a resolution will be reached soon. Not much news this time of year and the "Talking Heads" are reaching for anything to stir the pot. I'm waiting for Dilnuts to say something stupid any time now.

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    Specialist Henry Burris's Avatar
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    Forte isn't an elite back, huh? Okay, name 3 other runningbacks that are as good in the receiving game and blocking as he is,with a shittier o-line (remember people, we have the worst o-line in the NFL, statistically over the past 3 years so no, you won't find anything there...). I'll wait.


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    Member XaosGorilla's Avatar
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    Regarding not talking until the FT is signed: maybe someone quietly reminded the bears that they did something similar last year, and that the same trick usually doesn't work twice on the same person.

    It is good news that both sides are at least talking though. Maybe, just maybe we're starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel.


    "In the last 4 years, only 3 Running Backs have accounted for a greater percentage of their teams offense." (MJD, CJ, S. Jackson) - from NFL.com
    I think that stands for itself.
    Last edited by XaosGorilla; 06-23-2012 at 09:33 AM.
    "Professional Armchair Quarterback" and other oxymora.....

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    Senior Member Riczaj01's Avatar
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    Eh Irvin on NFL network sucks, but I heard him on 670 about a month ago, and he came off really level headed and very likeable. Not sure about Carter, never really listened to him much. But I think the points made are valid. W/RB's the FT is not being used to come to a long term agreement it's to get an extra 1-2 years out of them, which was never the intention.

    I do agree, there have been some cases of holdouts, but not many, and I think the fact the you're correct the fact they are still negotiating shows there is intent to sign him.

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    Specialist Henry Burris's Avatar
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    Oh yeah, are we relying on Bush or Bell for this kind of play?


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    Senior Member Riczaj01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry Burris View Post
    Forte isn't an elite back, huh? Okay, name 3 other runningbacks that are as good in the receiving game and blocking as he is,with a shittier o-line (remember people, we have the worst o-line in the NFL, statistically over the past 3 years so no, you won't find anything there...). I'll wait.

    I don't look at it like that; he is elite, But he's in the 2nd grouping of elite. He's not top 3-4-5(5th you can start to debate) he's probably closer to 6-8th best, but that is still elite. Crowley cherry picked by using only rushing td's; which like I said is cherry picking b/c Forte is so much more then jus this rushes.

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    To paraphrase Jimmors, it doesn't matter how he gets the yards, it's that he got 'em. He gets his and I personally couldn't care if it's from a run or a reception, the guy is more dependable than most other RBs...


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    Senior Member Riczaj01's Avatar
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    Actually I think it helps him to get a good portion from touches and yards via pss b/c he then is getting hit by db's and not DL's LB's.

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