Thread: Bears could have a steal in Troy left tackle James Brown

Originally Posted by bearsinhouston

Sure it does. It gives us something to complain about.

Oh yeah. I forgot about my old adage, "We do it because that's what Bears fans do".

Originally Posted by JustAnotherBearsFan99

Tice seems to prefer big, physical oline players who have a real mean streak. This guy is one. An offensive lineman who looks like he'd enjoy killing people, and not just blocking them.

Forgive me for being "politically incorrect" here, but watching (and listening) to Tice coach the oline players makes you think about how they must train pit bulls to fight. The oline is now like a bunch of 320 pound pit bulls.

They're not of a mindset to sit back and simply block people. They take it to the defense like slamming them upside the head with a 2x4.

After practice, he probably feeds 'em raw meat and gunpowder

There was an interesting article about Gabe Carimi on ESPN. He's dropped 10lbs of weight, added muscle and taken his body fat content down from 25% to below 20%. He said that with NFL teams passing more and employing speed rushers at both RDE and LDE who go 240-270lbs and run 4.5-4.6 forties the emphasis is away from 320-330lb OT's. He said OT's need to have more flexibility and athleticism to deal with that rather than bulk to push the pile as run blockers.

He came to camp at 308lbs which is almost exactly where Vikes first rounder Matt Kalil will be playing at LT. Interesting huh? Maybe James Brown who's 6'4" and goes 306lbs isn't gonna be too small for OT after all and maybe even Webb should look at losing some of his 330lbs. What Carimi said makes perfect sense.

Originally Posted by 4DaBERS

I wish I could share all the enthusiasm around here for the O-Line. I'm very skeptical about the value of this kid and almost as skeptical about the wholesale "improvements" that our O-Line will make as a result of a real off-season. That doesn't mean that I'm not VERY hopeful, just not ready to drink that flavor of Kool Aid just yet.

My thoughts exactly 4Da. I'll believe it when I see it but I'm looking forward to some good Kool Aid. Maybe orange or cherry.

Originally Posted by soulman

There was an interesting article about Gabe Carimi on ESPN. He's dropped 10lbs of weight, added muscle and taken his body fat content down from 25% to below 20%. He said that with NFL teams passing more and employing speed rushers at both RDE and LDE who go 240-270lbs and run 4.5-4.6 forties the emphasis is away from 320-330lb OT's. He said OT's need to more flexibility and athleticism to deal with that rather than bulk to push the pile as run blockers.

He came to camp at 308lbs which is almost exactly where Vikes first rounder Matt Kalil will be playing at LT. Interesting huh? Maybe James Brown who's 6'4" and goes 306lbs isn't gonna be too small for OT after all and maybe even Webb should look at losing some of his 330lbs. What Carimi said makes perfect sense.

That is interesting, and I agree with your point about James Brown 100%. I'm all for keeping lower body fat, within healthy limits. But some of our 300+ linemen (both offense AND defense) look like they are absolutely ripped. It's different than players used to be. You used to see the big guys with pot bellies. Most carried extra weight. That's really changed. Chris Williams is 320 and there's no grease on him man. Ripped. Peppers plays around 290 and his body fat must be amazingly low. Carimi looks great, but there are other linemen on the Bears who look even more ripped.

A player nowadays can be athletic and cat-quick at 300+ pounds. And, we DO need people who can run block as well as pass protect.

And I also agree with your comment on James Brown. He may be fine (he's not that tall anyway). I guess it just varies from player to player.

Here's Carimi a few days ago with 320 pound Chris Williams and 323 pound Chilo Rachal. No fat boys here

I don't know if I can quantify the line improvement w/a number but I'd say the O-line needs to improve by say 60%. I think 20% of that will be by scheme and Carimi will improve it further say 10% as a whole. But there is still a vast undecided gap in LT and if the talent like Louis and Spencer will come around.

Originally Posted by JustAnotherBearsFan99

That is interesting, and I agree with your point about James Brown 100%. I'm all for keeping lower body fat, within healthy limits. But some of our 300+ linemen (both offense AND defense) look like they are absolutely ripped. It's different than players used to be. You used to see the big guys with pot bellies. Most carried extra weight. That's really changed. Chris Williams is 320 and there's no grease on him man. Ripped. Peppers plays around 290 and his body fat must be amazingly low. Carimi looks great, but there are other linemen on the Bears who look even more ripped.

A player nowadays can be athletic and cat-quick at 300+ pounds. And, we DO need people who can run block as well as pass protect.

And I also agree with your comment on James Brown. He may be fine (he's not that tall anyway). I guess it just varies from player to player.

Here's Carimi a few days ago with 320 pound Chris Williams and 323 pound Chilo Rachal. No fat boys here

Exactly. Maybe I should have been a little more specific. I think in the past teams were looking for guys with a lot of "body mass" and weren't as particular about how it was carried. So yeah we saw a lot of guys sporting huge guts hanging over their belts weighing in at 350lbs even though the roster said they were 320 or 330lbs.

There should be fairly ideal playing weight for every frame and I think that's where Carimi is at with his thinking. You won't necessarily think so with his size but I guess 10lbs can mean a lot when you're trying to fine tune a machine like an NFL players body.

But no doubt there are guys who are just big and that's it. Pep is a monster of a DE for a guy who can chase down plays all over the field. And you can see looking at CWill and Rachal that those guys aren't fat although Chris is about 10lbs heavier now than when he came into the league.

Strength and quickness are at a premium now not just body mass. It's gotta be tough for these guys who are who are carrying 350lbs to keep playing at that weight as they get older. William Perry played an 308lbs his rookie year and he was a pretty damn good DT. A few years later when he couldn't keep it under 350lbs the Bears let him go and when he finished up with Philly he weighed 380lbs and was useless.

One of the reasons I've been against drafting some of these kids who come out of college weighing 350lbs is that I don't think these guys are gonna have long careers. I think their weight will catch up to them and if injured it will inhibit their recovery.

Originally Posted by soulman

Exactly. Maybe I should have been a little more specific. I think in the past teams were looking for guys with a lot of "body mass" and weren't as particular about how it was carried. So yeah we saw a lot of guys sporting huge guts hanging over their belts weighing in at 350lbs even though the roster said they were 320 or 330lbs.

There should be fairly ideal playing weight for every frame and I think that's where Carimi is at with his thinking. You won't necessarily think so with his size but I guess 10lbs can mean a lot when you're trying to fine tune a machine like an NFL players body.

But no doubt there are guys who are just big and that's it. Pep is a monster of a DE for a guy who can chase down plays all over the field. And you can see looking at CWill and Rachal that those guys aren't fat although Chris is about 10lbs heavier now than when he came into the league.

Strength and quickness are at a premium now not just body mass. It's gotta be tough for these guys who are who are carrying 350lbs to keep playing at that weight as they get older. William Perry played an 308lbs his rookie year and he was a pretty damn good DT. A few years later when he couldn't keep it under 350lbs the Bears let him go and when he finished up with Philly he weighed 380lbs and was useless.

One of the reasons I've been against drafting some of these kids who come out of college weighing 350lbs is that I don't think these guys are gonna have long careers. I think their weight will catch up to them and if injured it will inhibit their recovery.

I agree with all of that. When I look back at William Perry footage I realize how much athletes have changed. He looks like a fat guy who just got fatter over his career. Regarding today's 300 pound and up athletes, I wonder if they are exceeding the limits for a healthy body. It's not a "fat issue" because often they are low body fat. And they are in cardio shape too. But I wonder if the human heart, knees, ligaments etc are really capable of supporting these bodies as they are taxed to the limits of endurance. The stress on joints and ligaments in explosive moves must be amazing. For example a knee is a knee (structurally speaking) and the explosive stresses by a 320 pound lineman exploding play after play, game after game, season after season, must be pretty tough.

I'm no doctor and don't know squat about the human body, but you'd think we're getting super-sized to the point it is dangerous to the athletes. But maybe not.... What do you think?