All of this I completely agree with 99. The competition ended as soon as it became apparent that Carimi may need some help over there. So yeah, there was no "victor" because there was no competition and Webb remains at LT with no one to immediately push him out.
Originally Posted by JustAnotherBearsFan99
None of this is good news and even Tice's comments indicate he's more than a bit disappointed with what is right now. Gabe is healing slower than anticipated and we still have a mental midget unchallenged at LT. I think we can all be a little disappointed ourselves. Just when you think things may change for the better it's back to DDSOS.
I do agree that CWill needs to be the swing guy. He has the experience and the maturity to play anywhere on the line so it just makes good common sense to make him first off the bench. It should also allow him to take snaps on both sides of the ball with the second string during the preseason and that should get him more prepared to play wherever he's needed.
It's the smart move and I can't find any fault in it.
How exactly has Webb not taken a step forward? They challenged him with CWill and he has clearly outplayed him, otherwise it would be Webb going to the bench and moving to RT. Webb played an ENTIRE SEASON at RT already. He can play at either position.
Originally Posted by bearsinhouston
I love this site. If CWill beats out Webb it would've been "See Webb sucks. He belongs on the bench. blah blah bullshit." But because Webb retained hold of the LT spot its automatically swing to the negative side and make up every stupid ass excuse they've been making for CWill in his 5 years in CHI as to why he can't win that LT spot.
Its down right comical how Bears fans make excuses for that guy who was so bad as a T that they had to move him to G. lol
Guess you didn't really read the article brother so this bears repeating.
Originally Posted by BigBadPapaBear
For Williams, the switch to right tackle only a few days into camp essentially ended his bid to unseat Webb on the left side. Tice explained the motives behind the move.
"With Gabe's knee being sore a week ago, we had to get somebody over there with some experience to take some reps off of Gabe. He was in a little bit of a bad way there for a couple of days. We took some reps off of him which seemed to have worked. That kind of [interfered] with the competition.
This would pretty clearly indicate that the "competition" ended very soon after it started. Isn't that what it says to you too? And I think this makes it pretty clear that Webb hasn't "taken a step forward" and that neither "outplayed" the other. I'd say it was pretty much a dead heat before Tice felt he needed to move CWill to give Carimi some rest for now.
"I thought that one guy would separate himself and really jump out there," Tice said. "I don't think that's really happened. So for me, let's keep status quo and see where the games take us. I'm not in a rush to change for changes sake. We hope that a guy in his third year, Webb, will step up and mature as a football player and as a person...will get better, as to show us this means something to him.'
If he'd already stepped up his play and matured there's no need to hope that he'll get better.
I think Webb has only retained his hold on LT because once again old Chris "I've Been Moved" Williams is going where they need him most and that's to give Carimi some preseason relief at RT. There's nothing in Tice comments that say this is permanent. In fact he says just the opposite right here.
"As far as left and right tackle is concerned; we're going to go with Webb and Carimi for now," Tice said. "Gabe's knee is really going to come around. We're going to still evaluate the games and if one guy in a back up role steps up and has a great game, then we'll re-evaluate that."
If you've been following these guys like I have I think you'd see that all they've ever done is move CWill around to wherever they needed him to play. He started out at LT but got hurt. When he returned it was at RT because they had already settled on OMG at LT but needed a RT. He did OK for never having played RT before that. Much better in his stint there than Webb did in his.
But instead of leaving him at OT to develop they needed a LG so they moved him to yet another position he'd never played before. He struggled a bit at first but by the beginning of last season he's locked it down and was the best lineman we had until he was injured again.
No one is making excuses for CWill brother. No need to. There's no doubt in my mind that the combination of his injuries and all the shifting of positions have affected his development at any one position but he's intelligent and athletic enough to have adapted pretty well and become a good lineman. Given the fact that he could play any position on the line but OC makes him pretty valuable as a backup and the way we go through lineman we need experienced backup as much as we need starters. The idea that we should trade him as Biggs suggested is ridiculous. We'll need all the healthy experienced lineman we have before this year is out.
I can understand your defense of Webb. You're pulling for the guy and we all have our favorites but the way you're going about it is wrong. The facts and Tice's own comments tear down your argument brother. Right to the ground.
When you attack CWill it's like you're a politician who can't defend his own track record so he sets out to smear his opponents to gain support. Sorry pal, it ain't working. I don't know why as a Bears fan you'd want to charge head long into criticizing a guy who has actually been a pretty decent lineman given the hand he's been dealt. So should we shit can him and bring back OMG?
If JWebb, in this his third year, does improve and mature as an NFL LT we'll all be ecstatic but if he doesn't, and according to Tice he's not seen that yet, then Cutler is in for another long year of playing "duck, dodge, and hide unless we come up with another solution.
So I really don't give a rat's ass who has more upside. This could be a Super Bowl year and all I care about is who has more to offer in 2012. If Webb can grow out of his mental midget stage and stop making stupid mistakes and cut his sacks at least in half then I'll admit he's grown and earned the job but right now? NO! I'm just relieved we have CWill as a backup right now and not "The Living Turnstile".
Am I the only one hoping some maybe older- not spectacular- yet still solid 'enough'- veteran tackle with some tread still left on his tires , gets released a couple weeks into cuts ?
Nope, but don't hold your breath. If a LT who can still pass block has any tread left on his tires he's probably worth keeping as a backup if nothing else. I think most of what you're gonna see is a bunch of bald re-caps get let go.
Originally Posted by Blue Horse-shoe
The Packers let Chad Clifton go and he's still out of work. Should we try for Orlando Pace v2.0?
Originally Posted by soulman
Soul what I'm seeing in those comments by Tice is a lot of politicking and trying not to hurt anyone's feelings. If no one has really distinguished themselves at LT then this would be a perfect time to send Webb back to RT to work on the swing T role. Its perfect timing. What I also see is a coach whose trying to make sure that Webb doesn't get too comfortable with winning that job. Man these guys play these mind games with players all the time. And I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing as no young player should ever feel that they won't be replaced if their play slips.
CWill is a dud. We drafted him to be a starting LT. Now he's gone from being a starting G to a backup T. The guy is a dud. You don't use #1 picks for backup lineman and that's all he's become now. We have a C playing LG, who Tice obviously sees is even more talented than CWill. He's been here 5 long years. I thought he finally found a home at LG and he's not even good enough for that spot at this time. So yea I'll keep attacking CWill until he actually gets into the starting lineup. Guy couldn't even outplay Webb when it mattered so yea CWill sucks the big one.
I disagree with your entire second paragraph and I tell you why. It's just more of the same kind of crap you keep using to smear CWill rather than look at the the problems your boy Webb has becoming an NFL starter at OT too. You don't want to listen to or understand what I just said brother so I'm wasting my time with just the facts. Apparently those are meaningless to you. You'd rather just truck out your unsupported opinions so let's take off the gloves and duke this one out verbally no holds barred OK.
Originally Posted by BigBadPapaBear
1)Your first sentence = CWill is a dud. Tell me who the fuck was THE VERY WORST OT in the NFL two years running. Who? Did you forget that little fact when you formed the opinions this paragraph is based on? Did you need a hint, because it sure wasn't Chris Williams!
J'Marcus Webb has led the league in penalties assessed against OT's both years he's started in addition to being at or very near the top in sacks allowed and pressures allowed! So far he's failed to play competently or hold either OT position or we wouldn't have replaced him with Carimi and there would be no competition for LT this year. At least CWill has been a two year starter at LG and except for an injury last year has held his spot for two years and graded out one hell or a lot higher at LG than Webb has at either OT spot.
2) We drafted him to play LT, he could only play OG and now he's a backup and you don't use #1 picks as backup linemen. I guess you haven't searched NFL rosters enough to see that most of last years early round OT picks were either grabbing pine or playing RT when they played LT in college. Carimi included. Only Castonzo played LT and not all 16 games. But that was the Colts and they were pretty desperate. Actually that happens pretty frequently.
The Pack drafted LT Derek Sherrod last year and he's been sitting behind two former 6th round picks on their depth chart. A couple of years ago the drafted Brian Bulaga #23 as their LT of the future. Couldn't hack it so he's been playing RT and RG for the last two years sharing time at both. So CWill isn't the only guy drafted to play LT who isn't playing LT. Most of this years early OT picks won't be playing LT either.
Half the LT's playing in the NFL last year weren't #1 draft picks including Webb. There only so many sure things like a Matt Kalil or a Joe Thomas or an Orlando Pace to be had and if you want one in round one you better have a top five pick. Fortunately the Bears don't draft that high very often.
CWill is playing swing OT right now because we don't have anyone else with experience who can do it and if Webb fails he may not be a backup. Spencer playing LG has nothing to do with Tice believing Spencer has more talent than him. CWill is a better LG than Spencer but Spencer can't play OT so CWill has to. We're paper thin as far as experienced OT's go and as Tice said he can't trust a rookie with zero NFL experience with that job. If we had another vet OT CWill would still be starting at LG and you know it. To pretend otherwise is just plain wrong. He's the only guy on the roster who could step in and play any one of four line positions tomorrow and hold his own. That's not a dud as far as his overall abilities are concerned!
3) He's been here 5 long years and he can't even hold his spot at LG. Well I think I've already disposed of the lack of truth in second part of this statement above (see, I even highlighted it for you) so I guess I'll move on to the first.
Sorry wrong again. He's played in 47 out of 64 games over FOUR NFL seasons and started in just 38 of them, 20 of them at LG, 11 at RT and just 7 at LT. He's missed 17 games in all due to injury or roughly an entire season. This may be his fifth season but he only has three years equivalent playing experience and just a little more than a year total at that LG spot you seem to want to insist he couldn't hold onto. He played 11 games at RT to Webbs 12 and as I recall he was never saddled with being called the worst RT in the NFL when he did an honor that Webb has won two years running at both OT positions.
4) So yeah I'll keep attacking him until he gets into the starting lineup. He couldn't even outplay Webb. Well since he's actually started more games in his career than Webb has I think he proven himself to be at least equal. But since Webb has only played two years if we want to just confine it to that if CWill hadn't been injured last year he'd also have just as many starts as Webb over the last two years. And if we're talking about quality starts I'll put his at LG up against Webb's at either OT spot anyday. CWill was never ranked as the worst anything in the NFL at any position either as opposed to Webb's two trophies for that. (Just thought I'd point that out again. It doesn't seem to have sunken in the first few times)
I guess you just decided to ignore Tice's comments again about nobody outplayed anybody so far. (Guess I have to repeat this too) He sounded a little disappointed in both but he's keeping Webb there for this game because he needs CWill to give Carimi some time off in practice which leaves CWill no reps at LT and CWill doesn't sound happy with that either but he's gonna do what's best for the team. So that's this week but Tice also said he'll continue to evaluate their play and make a change if it makes sense to do it but not change just for the sake of change.
Doesn't sound to me like Webb has won anything yet except temporarily and by default. He's on a very short leash which I hope he lengthens for Cutler's sake and the Bears. You see I'm not rooting against Webb like you are against CWill but I'm not drinking the kool-aid you're pouring either. So far Webb has been lazy in his conditioning and offseason work with his teammates, he's shown a sad lack of maturity as a person and a player and is about two bad games away from losing his start. He's just about as close to becoming an ex-Bear as CWill is if he doesn't show some real improvment soon.
CWill can play OG in this league. He's already proven that and if the Bears decide not to bring him back next year somebody will sign him as a FA even if it's just as a backup. Webb on the other hand has yet to prove he can play any position at an NFL level. The fact that he's Richmond Webb's nephew means about as much as the balance in the US Postal Service Pension Fund...Zip. So far he's looked more like Orlando Pace during his stint with the Bears than anything else.
So my friend I'm not gonna put down a vet whose made his bones while being moved all over the line over the last three years and is still being moved around to plug whatever current hole needs to be plugged. A guy whose only played 7 games at LT in four seasons and still played them better than some that Webb has played. Who the hell knows whether he can play LT or not. They've never even come close to leaving him there long enough to find out. But they have left Webb there long enough to find out that he can't.......so far.
So here's what it comes down to. You're a Bears fan (supposedly) who likes to flame one of his own players just because the guy happens to be in competition with another guy you have such a hard on over that you not only ignore basic facts but you also reinterpret what their coach says to your liking so that it fits your own reality and supports your opinions.
Facts are facts pal and you're posts are quite short on them. Lacking might even be a better way to describe it. You don't even take the time to look up the facts because if they don't support your position you're just gonna ignore then anyway. You say your a Bears fan yet in this instance you post like a troll just to inflame. It's not even a legit debate with you because if you're proven wrong you ignore it and just rely on your same old dogma. "The guys sucks".
Well you know what else sucks? Your attitude, your insults and the way you've attacked other members around here to the point that some refuse to even post when you're around. You want to be an asset to this membership and get those little red boxes turned green again then stop playing "that asshole from New Jersey" all the time. If that's just your persona around here maybe you should moderate it a bit and if not then start rooting for the fucking Eagles. Their fans are a lot closer to you and you're a lot more like those jerks than you are a Bears fan.
that kind of also explains the Bears semi-interest in Otah, because they wanted Carimi to have a backup. With him being done, they had to re-evaluate how they're using their personnel....
Not agreeing with you on this one BBPB.
I don't think Webb clearly beat CWill. I think CWill got pulled to help out on the RT position because he could. CWill wasn't able to beat out Webb either, so I think we have a caryover more because of having an injured RT than anything else. However, I think CWill was probablyu going to have to be much better than Webb to be able to take the spot and he wasn't by all accounts.
You're busting on the wrong guy. Just cuz I like cutting on the guy doesn't mean I don't want him to succeed. I just don't think he has SO FAR. I want to see what he can do in the preseason and first few games before I decide where I think he's at. The scheme change may be enough -- I don't know.
Hey if he turns stud, I'm the first one in line to east some crow. Not up for a bag of dicks though.
Originally Posted by BigBadPapaBear
I want to see how J Brown does in our pre season games. We need someone on this team that can step if need be.