ESPN: Bears going with Webb, Carimi at OT. Competition over.

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08-07-2012, 10:27 AM
bearsinhouston

JJ - Good point

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJ-30

I want to see how J Brown does in our pre season games. We need someone on this team that can step if need be.
08-07-2012, 10:59 AM
MPBears68

Quote:

Originally Posted by bearsinhouston

Even that may not be the case. It may be that CWill had to be pulled to help out Carimi's knee. Have no clue if he was almost as good, just as good or even a little better than Webb. He could play RT and so they pulled him. What a crappy way to leave.

The bad news is that as of now, Webb does not appear to have taken a step forward. Tice is hoping he does. I'm sure Cutler is hoping the very same thing.

BiH,

That's exactly my point. Webb was supposedly going to benefit from having a year of starting LT experience under his belt and a full offseason w/OTAs, no lockout, etc., etc. Tice just went out of his way to (politely) say that JW hasn't exactly blown him away and hasn't "won" the job in the hoped-for way. It sounds more like CW was moved to RT to spare Carimi a bit who's still not 100% with that knee. Obviously, CW wasn't exactly lighting it up at LT either.

I'm not panicking at all, but I am concerned. I want to see some PS games and Webb play some solid, consistent LT. We don't need a pro-bowl performance out of him in 2012 but double-digit sacks and double-digit penalties can't be repeated. Besides injury risk (which all teams have), the main risk to this season is at LT imho.
08-07-2012, 11:02 AM
MPBears68

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBadPapaBear

How exactly has Webb not taken a step forward? They challenged him with CWill and he has clearly outplayed him, otherwise it would be Webb going to the bench and moving to RT. Webb played an ENTIRE SEASON at RT already. He can play at either position.

I love this site. If CWill beats out Webb it would've been "See Webb sucks. He belongs on the bench. blah blah bullshit." But because Webb retained hold of the LT spot its automatically swing to the negative side and make up every stupid ass excuse they've been making for CWill in his 5 years in CHI as to why he can't win that LT spot.

Its down right comical how Bears fans make excuses for that guy who was so bad as a T that they had to move him to G. lol

You might want to go back and actually read the article. That is NOT what it said and it's NOT what Tice said.
08-07-2012, 03:01 PM
JustAnotherBearsFan99

I guess the "good news" is that everything could still work out well for us. Webb could very well improve enough to be a decent LT this year. By not making him responsible for BOTH tackle positions, Tice is giving him every opportunity to be solid at ONE position. I realize that Webb has played RT before, but his issues have been a lack of concentration and consistency - so why NOT simplify his life and let him focus on the ONE position this year? This is his 3rd year with Tice. It could be a breakout year for him. Tice knows this.

The reason they are giving Webb every benefit of the doubt, and opportunity, is that IF he can handle LT, it will be HUGE for our team. Huge. C.Will can play any position on the oline and do a decent job (other than center). He'll be fine no matter where he ends up.

I'm pulling 100% for Webb to be solid because that will mean our oline is set to be decent this year. Maybe not great, but certainly good enough to make our season solid. Odds are pretty good that one of our tackles will be injured this season. With C.Will we have a guy who can step up and keep the line decent. He may not be a great tackle, but he's certainly decent enough to keep the ship afloat. He was our best olineman last year. He is "taking one for the team" here by losing his LG position where he was a rock solid starter, to moving to back up BOTH tackle positions - and doing it well enough to keep our season going.

I don't think Tice had any choice here. He's betting the farm on Webb improving this year. I hope this is the case.
08-07-2012, 03:35 PM
BearStuff

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustAnotherBearsFan99

I guess the "good news" is that everything could still work out well for us. Webb could very well improve enough to be a decent LT this year. By not making him responsible for BOTH tackle positions, Tice is giving him every opportunity to be solid at ONE position. I realize that Webb has played RT before, but his issues have been a lack of concentration and consistency - so why NOT simplify his life and let him focus on the ONE position this year? This is his 3rd year with Tice. It could be a breakout year for him. Tice knows this.

The reason they are giving Webb every benefit of the doubt, and opportunity, is that IF he can handle LT, it will be HUGE for our team. Huge. C.Will can play any position on the oline and do a decent job (other than center). He'll be fine no matter where he ends up.

I'm pulling 100% for Webb to be solid because that will mean our oline is set to be decent this year. Maybe not great, but certainly good enough to make our season solid. Odds are pretty good that one of our tackles will be injured this season. With C.Will we have a guy who can step up and keep the line decent. He may not be a great tackle, but he's certainly decent enough to keep the ship afloat. He was our best olineman last year. He is "taking one for the team" here by losing his LG position where he was a rock solid starter, to moving to back up BOTH tackle positions - and doing it well enough to keep our season going.

I don't think Tice had any choice here. He's betting the farm on Webb improving this year. I hope this is the case.

Exactly.
08-07-2012, 05:10 PM
BigBadPapaBear

Quote:

Originally Posted by MPBears68

You might want to go back and actually read the article. That is NOT what it said and it's NOT what Tice said.

I know exactly what the article said and Webb is the starter. You guys just don't like the fact that CWill sucks and that he can't take the starting job from Webb. So fuck CWill and all his supporters. Instead of rooting for Webb they desire that he fails and that makes everyone of those shitheads a bunch of tools. Webb will be fine. If Webb couldn't play they would never have invested this much in him and they would have cut his ass this offseason and used that #1 pick on a RT to play LT. But you guys don't want to hear the facts. The facts are that webb will be our LT and Tice wants more out of him.
08-07-2012, 05:12 PM
BigBadPapaBear

Quote:

Originally Posted by soulman

I disagree with your entire second paragraph and I tell you why. It's just more of the same kind of crap you keep using to smear CWill rather than look at the the problems your boy Webb has becoming an NFL starter at OT too. You don't want to listen to or understand what I just said brother so I'm wasting my time with just the facts. Apparently those are meaningless to you. You'd rather just truck out your unsupported opinions so let's take off the gloves and duke this one out verbally no holds barred OK.

1)Your first sentence = CWill is a dud. Tell me who the fuck was THE VERY WORST OT in the NFL two years running. Who? Did you forget that little fact when you formed the opinions this paragraph is based on? Did you need a hint, because it sure wasn't Chris Williams!

J'Marcus Webb has led the league in penalties assessed against OT's both years he's started in addition to being at or very near the top in sacks allowed and pressures allowed! So far he's failed to play competently or hold either OT position or we wouldn't have replaced him with Carimi and there would be no competition for LT this year. At least CWill has been a two year starter at LG and except for an injury last year has held his spot for two years and graded out one hell or a lot higher at LG than Webb has at either OT spot.

2) We drafted him to play LT, he could only play OG and now he's a backup and you don't use #1 picks as backup linemen. I guess you haven't searched NFL rosters enough to see that most of last years early round OT picks were either grabbing pine or playing RT when they played LT in college. Carimi included. Only Castonzo played LT and not all 16 games. But that was the Colts and they were pretty desperate. Actually that happens pretty frequently.

The Pack drafted LT Derek Sherrod last year and he's been sitting behind two former 6th round picks on their depth chart. A couple of years ago the drafted Brian Bulaga #23 as their LT of the future. Couldn't hack it so he's been playing RT and RG for the last two years sharing time at both. So CWill isn't the only guy drafted to play LT who isn't playing LT. Most of this years early OT picks won't be playing LT either.

Half the LT's playing in the NFL last year weren't #1 draft picks including Webb. There only so many sure things like a Matt Kalil or a Joe Thomas or an Orlando Pace to be had and if you want one in round one you better have a top five pick. Fortunately the Bears don't draft that high very often.

CWill is playing swing OT right now because we don't have anyone else with experience who can do it and if Webb fails he may not be a backup. Spencer playing LG has nothing to do with Tice believing Spencer has more talent than him. CWill is a better LG than Spencer but Spencer can't play OT so CWill has to. We're paper thin as far as experienced OT's go and as Tice said he can't trust a rookie with zero NFL experience with that job. If we had another vet OT CWill would still be starting at LG and you know it. To pretend otherwise is just plain wrong. He's the only guy on the roster who could step in and play any one of four line positions tomorrow and hold his own. That's not a dud as far as his overall abilities are concerned!

3) He's been here 5 long years and he can't even hold his spot at LG. Well I think I've already disposed of the lack of truth in second part of this statement above (see, I even highlighted it for you) so I guess I'll move on to the first.

Sorry wrong again. He's played in 47 out of 64 games over FOUR NFL seasons and started in just 38 of them, 20 of them at LG, 11 at RT and just 7 at LT. He's missed 17 games in all due to injury or roughly an entire season. This may be his fifth season but he only has three years equivalent playing experience and just a little more than a year total at that LG spot you seem to want to insist he couldn't hold onto. He played 11 games at RT to Webbs 12 and as I recall he was never saddled with being called the worst RT in the NFL when he did an honor that Webb has won two years running at both OT positions.

4) So yeah I'll keep attacking him until he gets into the starting lineup. He couldn't even outplay Webb. Well since he's actually started more games in his career than Webb has I think he proven himself to be at least equal. But since Webb has only played two years if we want to just confine it to that if CWill hadn't been injured last year he'd also have just as many starts as Webb over the last two years. And if we're talking about quality starts I'll put his at LG up against Webb's at either OT spot anyday. CWill was never ranked as the worst anything in the NFL at any position either as opposed to Webb's two trophies for that. (Just thought I'd point that out again. It doesn't seem to have sunken in the first few times)

I guess you just decided to ignore Tice's comments again about nobody outplayed anybody so far. (Guess I have to repeat this too) He sounded a little disappointed in both but he's keeping Webb there for this game because he needs CWill to give Carimi some time off in practice which leaves CWill no reps at LT and CWill doesn't sound happy with that either but he's gonna do what's best for the team. So that's this week but Tice also said he'll continue to evaluate their play and make a change if it makes sense to do it but not change just for the sake of change.

Doesn't sound to me like Webb has won anything yet except temporarily and by default. He's on a very short leash which I hope he lengthens for Cutler's sake and the Bears. You see I'm not rooting against Webb like you are against CWill but I'm not drinking the kool-aid you're pouring either. So far Webb has been lazy in his conditioning and offseason work with his teammates, he's shown a sad lack of maturity as a person and a player and is about two bad games away from losing his start. He's just about as close to becoming an ex-Bear as CWill is if he doesn't show some real improvment soon.

CWill can play OG in this league. He's already proven that and if the Bears decide not to bring him back next year somebody will sign him as a FA even if it's just as a backup. Webb on the other hand has yet to prove he can play any position at an NFL level. The fact that he's Richmond Webb's nephew means about as much as the balance in the US Postal Service Pension Fund...Zip. So far he's looked more like Orlando Pace during his stint with the Bears than anything else.

So my friend I'm not gonna put down a vet whose made his bones while being moved all over the line over the last three years and is still being moved around to plug whatever current hole needs to be plugged. A guy whose only played 7 games at LT in four seasons and still played them better than some that Webb has played. Who the hell knows whether he can play LT or not. They've never even come close to leaving him there long enough to find out. But they have left Webb there long enough to find out that he can't.......so far.

So here's what it comes down to. You're a Bears fan (supposedly) who likes to flame one of his own players just because the guy happens to be in competition with another guy you have such a hard on over that you not only ignore basic facts but you also reinterpret what their coach says to your liking so that it fits your own reality and supports your opinions.

Facts are facts pal and you're posts are quite short on them. Lacking might even be a better way to describe it. You don't even take the time to look up the facts because if they don't support your position you're just gonna ignore then anyway. You say your a Bears fan yet in this instance you post like a troll just to inflame. It's not even a legit debate with you because if you're proven wrong you ignore it and just rely on your same old dogma. "The guys sucks".

Well you know what else sucks? Your attitude, your insults and the way you've attacked other members around here to the point that some refuse to even post when you're around. You want to be an asset to this membership and get those little red boxes turned green again then stop playing "that asshole from New Jersey" all the time. If that's just your persona around here maybe you should moderate it a bit and if not then start rooting for the fucking Eagles. Their fans are a lot closer to you and you're a lot more like those jerks than you are a Bears fan.

Cheers. :cheers:

CWill is a dud at LT. Don't need a dissertation either to explain his epic suckness either Soul.
08-07-2012, 05:15 PM
BigBadPapaBear

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBadPapaBear

CWill is a dud at LT. Don't need a dissertation either to explain his epic suckness either Soul.

EDIT: Btw, FORGET YOU SOUL, your opinion on this LT issue is straight up poop.
08-07-2012, 05:22 PM
Blue Horse-shoe

Quote:

Originally Posted by soulman

Nope, but don't hold your breath. If a LT who can still pass block has any tread left on his tires he's probably worth keeping as a backup if nothing else. I think most of what you're gonna see is a bunch of bald re-caps get let go.

The Packers let Chad Clifton go and he's still out of work. Should we try for Orlando Pace v2.0?

True . I was thinking more along the lines of a cap casualty cuz there usually are a few of those every year.
08-07-2012, 08:17 PM
MPBears68

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBadPapaBear

I know exactly what the article said and Webb is the starter. You guys just don't like the fact that CWill sucks and that he can't take the starting job from Webb. So fuck CWill and all his supporters. Instead of rooting for Webb they desire that he fails and that makes everyone of those shitheads a bunch of tools. Webb will be fine. If Webb couldn't play they would never have invested this much in him and they would have cut his ass this offseason and used that #1 pick on a RT to play LT. But you guys don't want to hear the facts. The facts are that webb will be our LT and Tice wants more out of him.

I'm neither a CWill-lover nor a Webb-hater. I posted in another thread how disappointed I was in CW that he had "lost" at LT (that was before Tice talked about WHY he was moved to shore up Carimi). All I want if for our LT to be serviceable and competent and non-embarrassing and non-lethal to JC this year. That's all. I'm not asking for miracles here or a pro-bowl performance. If Webb does (not "can" but actually DOES) deliver that, I'll be singing his praises. All I want is a decent LT whoever starts and whoever plays. The window is closing--esp. if Urlacher's knee continues at nag him--and outside of further major injuries, the one "hole" on our team that could likely derail a SB run is CRAP PASS PROTECTION primarily from the LT position.

Webb SUCKED last year. He was a FAIL. He graded out as the 32nd out of 32 starting LT's in the NFL. I realize that it was only his 2nd year in the league and his first playing LT. I realize that the LO cost him prep time. I realize that he had games in which he played pretty darned good (Philly, TB). He also had games in which he wasn't just "off", he was freakin' terrible. A one-man drive killer. An embarrassment and sack & penalty machine. Double digit sacks AND penalties are simply not getting the job done.

This year is supposedly different. Its his 3rd year (when a lot of players "blossom") and his 2nd at LT. He's got a full offseason to work with. He's healthy. He (had) competition. His future is on the line...

have a great year-->solidifes his starting role + nice contract coming up
Have an unimproved year-->future with the team in doubt, no big contract

We all know that he has the physical tools to be good. Does he have the dedication, drive, and mental focus? We will see and I'd love to see it.

But Tice's comments in the last few days make it very clear that Webb hasn't shown him anything special yet in TC, Tice is openly questioning his determination to improve, and CWill was moved more because Carimi needed relief than because Webb was dominanting the position.

I hope it's clear now why Webb hasn't convinced too many people yet.

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