Webb - "There are no other options"

I already have something to blame Emery about right now, and it's about the offensive line. Sure, he signed Brown as an UDFA and Rachal in free agency, but instead of taking Riley Reiff in the first round when we had the opportunity to boost our offensive line once and for with a lineman who could have easily been a pretty formidable LT in his rookie season (or at least better than what we have currently), he decided to draft McClellin. Now, I know that we needed a good pass rusher, but our defense was good enough without another first round pass rusher to go another year with addressing the offensive line in the first round first. The defense would have been better last year had we not been wracked with injuries on offense that rendered the offense ineffective at season's end and thus caused the defense to spend more time on the field than they should have had to. Last year's defensive statistics were very skewed, and I think it's important to note that we still have a very good run defense.

I am not as sure as you are that this Emery fault. Emery only had a short time before FA and the Draft and I am sure he used a lot of input from the coaches. Tice unlike the rest of the world believed in Web and his O line players. Webb could be Tices down fall, I feel Tice believes too much in what everyone was saying about him that he is one of the best Offensive Line Coaches in the NFL. I don't care how good Tice is, his biggest miscue has been Webb. Webb was given the job last year and the so called competition at the beginning of training camp was nothing more then smoke. IMO Tice looks at Webb as the biggest steal of the 2011 draft when in fact he is one of the biggest bust of the 2011 draft. I don't think even now that Tice is willing to give up on Webb, I see Lovies or even Emery hand I bring Williams back into the mix. Brown might be a better choice then Webb or Williams but not at this point in the season, he needs time to develop,.

QUOTE=Dagan81;896230]I already have something to blame Emery about right now, and it's about the offensive line. Sure, he signed Brown as an UDFA and Rachal in free agency, but instead of taking Riley Reiff in the first round when we had the opportunity to boost our offensive line once and for with a lineman who could have easily been a pretty formidable LT in his rookie season (or at least better than what we have currently), he decided to draft McClellin. Now, I know that we needed a good pass rusher, but our defense was good enough without another first round pass rusher to go another year with addressing the offensive line in the first round first. The defense would have been better last year had we not been wracked with injuries on offense that rendered the offense ineffective at season's end and thus caused the defense to spend more time on the field than they should have had to. Last year's defensive statistics were very skewed, and I think it's important to note that we still have a very good run defense.[/QUOTE]

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Originally Posted by JJ-30

I am not as sure as you are that this Emery fault. Emery only had a short time before FA and the Draft and I am sure he used a lot of input from the coaches. Tice unlike the rest of the world believed in Web and his O line players. Webb could be Tices down fall, I feel Tice believes too much in what everyone was saying about him that he is one of the best Offensive Line Coaches in the NFL. I don't care how good Tice is, his biggest miscue has been Webb. Webb was given the job last year and the so called competition at the beginning of training camp was nothing more then smoke. IMO Tice looks at Webb as the biggest steal of the 2011 draft when in fact he is one of the biggest bust of the 2011 draft. I don't think even now that Tice is willing to give up on Webb, I see Lovies or even Emery hand I bring Williams back into the mix. Brown might be a better choice then Webb or Williams but not at this point in the season, he needs time to develop,.

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I agree with JJ on this. The only thing that I would attribute to Emery here is listening to Tice. But he had 3 major issues - WR, DE and OT. He had one of those coaches telling him that the OT was fine. I'm not sure that most of us wouldn't have done the same. I remember when Tice was with the Vikings I used to call him the meathead.

I thought I was completely wrong about him after his first season here. Now I'm on the fence.

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Originally Posted by JJ-30

I am not as sure as you are that this Emery fault. Emery only had a short time before FA and the Draft and I am sure he used a lot of input from the coaches. Tice unlike the rest of the world believed in Web and his O line players. Webb could be Tices down fall, I feel Tice believes too much in what everyone was saying about him that he is one of the best Offensive Line Coaches in the NFL. I don't care how good Tice is, his biggest miscue has been Webb. Webb was given the job last year and the so called competition at the beginning of training camp was nothing more then smoke. IMO Tice looks at Webb as the biggest steal of the 2011 draft when in fact he is one of the biggest bust of the 2011 draft. I don't think even now that Tice is willing to give up on Webb, I see Lovies or even Emery hand I bring Williams back into the mix. Brown might be a better choice then Webb or Williams but not at this point in the season, he needs time to develop,.

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Originally Posted by Dagan81

I already have something to blame Emery about right now, and it's about the offensive line. Sure, he signed Brown as an UDFA and Rachal in free agency, but instead of taking Riley Reiff in the first round when we had the opportunity to boost our offensive line once and for with a lineman who could have easily been a pretty formidable LT in his rookie season (or at least better than what we have currently), he decided to draft McClellin. Now, I know that we needed a good pass rusher, but our defense was good enough without another first round pass rusher to go another year with addressing the offensive line in the first round first. The defense would have been better last year had we not been wracked with injuries on offense that rendered the offense ineffective at season's end and thus caused the defense to spend more time on the field than they should have had to. Last year's defensive statistics were very skewed, and I think it's important to note that we still have a very good run defense.

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JJ, we almost agree on everything except for the fact that I think it is Emery's fault for listening too much to what his coaches had to say rather than going with his gut instinct. I do agree 100% that Tice may well have fallen on his sword finally with the current state of the LT position. While Webb's statistics in the first preseason game looked okay, we do have to remember that he dominated against weaker competition in the second half, and thus he didn't have the opportunity to "negatively pad his stats" for the entire game like he did in the first half. When he played against the Broncos first unit, he struggled, committing one false start penalty and giving up one sack. That doesn't prove jack shit to me other than once again, Tice thinks he knows more than he actually does. Hopefully, Emery will remember that this coming offseason and draft someone to take Webb's place.

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Originally Posted by JustAnotherBearsFan99

I totally agree. What frustrates me is that this is not a new problem for the Bears. Every year it's the same old story. Oline woes. Under Jerry Angelo's watch, I believe the Bears were just bad talent evaluators. The C. Williams 1st round draft is just one example. We didn't get a 1st round talent there. They have had a lot of misses in FA and the draft.

I don't know if they simply didn't value the importance of having a good oline. Or, if it was just that they couldn't pick good talent if their life depended on it. Either way it is frustrating. Most of the Chicago Bears fan base is tired of the failure to put together an oline. So surely Emery is bright enough to "get it" and do something about it next draft.

We'll see.

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Yeah, spot on. Way preliminary of course but Emery's "WR formula" of bringing in one vet and adding a promising prospect high in the draft is probably gonna be necessary next offseason. The OL follies every PS is really getting old and JA utterly failed to continuously "restock the shelves" with new talent. Even if Webb (please, God) puts down the Twitter crap and suddenly finds a work ethic and becomes a serviceable "B- quality" LT, we are going to lose/release someone--probably Spencer which is fine. We are gonna have to look seriously at an OC prospect to groom behind Garza for one year (I don't see EWill as the answer here) and maybe one vet for depth (an OT if Brown doesn't pan out or an OG if he does).

We gotta start investing more draft priority in LB and OL for obvious reasons.

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Originally Posted by Dagan81

I already have something to blame Emery about right now, and it's about the offensive line. Sure, he signed Brown as an UDFA and Rachal in free agency, but instead of taking Riley Reiff in the first round when we had the opportunity to boost our offensive line once and for with a lineman who could have easily been a pretty formidable LT in his rookie season (or at least better than what we have currently), he decided to draft McClellin. Now, I know that we needed a good pass rusher, but our defense was good enough without another first round pass rusher to go another year with addressing the offensive line in the first round first. The defense would have been better last year had we not been wracked with injuries on offense that rendered the offense ineffective at season's end and thus caused the defense to spend more time on the field than they should have had to. Last year's defensive statistics were very skewed, and I think it's important to note that we still have a very good run defense.

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I dunno, Dags. I find it hard to blame Emery here, trying as he was to put humpty-dumpty back together again on the fly after JA left the shelves pretty bare. He had limited resources and did a helluva job pretty quickly in upgrading an embarrassingly uncompetitive passing attack and patching up backup QB, power RB, STs, CB, the pass rush etc etc. There was a limit to what he could realistically accomplish in one offeason and I think he made some great moves to get the "best bang for the buck".

There really was no legit LT-outta-the-box availability to us in the draft. It was a weak OT-prospect class this year. Prob the only real 1st year LT was Kalil and we had zero shot at him. The other guys (Martin, Reiff, Adams) aren't going to start at LT for anyone this year. They might not even start at RT. You could make a case for taking DeCastro over a DE. DeC is going to be a helluva OG but that was a position of lesser priority and I'm sure Tice was counting on Webb getting his ass in gear @ LT and CWill resuming his solid play @ LG.

In round 2, we might of had a shot at Zeitler or Konz on the inside (liked them both) but it's hard to fault Emery's choice of Jeffery. This kid is going be a really good WR for us and I think he will contribute significantly (not a star, but an up-and-comer) in his rookie year. We know what PE did in 3 & 4 and can't fault him there either--2 really promising guys there. Traded away our 5th and, as Soul has pointed out many times, we got a steal of an udfa rookie in James Brown...who was projected as high as the mid-rounds. Grabbing him right after the draft was a solid move that was in effect our 5th round OL pick. Several teams woo'd him and he chose the Bears. Wisely on his part. I think this kid saw a team thin at OT and knew he had a better shot to make the roster here than most other places.

JB isn't going help us this year but maybe just maybe he's a player that will pay dividends 1-2 years down the road. The best shot we had at truly upgrading LT was last offseason when JA whiffed on Bushrod. There just weren't any good options this offseason.

Under Jerry Angelo's watch we saw the overall talent on the team atrophy to the point that after last season we had a few "stars" surrounded by a lot of mediocre players. Draft reaches, busts, below average FA's, players being played out of position due to crisis problems - and an offense led by "Mad Mike" Martz.
It's a fact of life that every team has SOME mediocre talent. But Super Bowl winning-level teams have an overall level of talent that is better than what Angelo gave us.

Then we have Emery walk into this mess. It's like one of the reality shows where someone has to completely gut and rebuild a home. Emery pulled off a miracle off-season. But he couldn't fix the entire home in one brief off season. Next off season the oline will get the attention it deserves. I think it's just "reality" after the Jerry Angelo debacle.

And I believe with all my heart that Emery has put a team together for THIS season that has a shot at a Super Bowl run. Even with this oline. Which is a miracle in itself.

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Originally Posted by JustAnotherBearsFan99

Under Jerry Angelo's watch we saw the overall talent on the team atrophy to the point that after last season we had a few "stars" surrounded by a lot of mediocre players. Draft reaches, busts, below average FA's, players being played out of position due to crisis problems - and an offense led by "Mad Mike" Martz.
It's a fact of life that every team has SOME mediocre talent. But Super Bowl winning-level teams have an overall level of talent that is better than what Angelo gave us.

Then we have Emery walk into this mess. It's like one of the reality shows where someone has to completely gut and rebuild a home. Emery pulled off a miracle off-season. But he couldn't fix the entire home in one brief off season. Next off season the oline will get the attention it deserves. I think it's just "reality" after the Jerry Angelo debacle.

And I believe with all my heart that Emery has put a team together for THIS season that has a shot at a Super Bowl run. Even with this oline. Which is a miracle in itself.

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I couldn't agree more. The "Angler" really had the team in shambles and there's only so much Emery could do given the timeframe AND considering the salary cap issues with new contracts both this year and next. Quite a admirable job so far IMHO !
:18_1_205:

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Originally Posted by MPBears68

I dunno, Dags. I find it hard to blame Emery here, trying as he was to put humpty-dumpty back together again on the fly after JA left the shelves pretty bare. He had limited resources and did a helluva job pretty quickly in upgrading an embarrassingly uncompetitive passing attack and patching up backup QB, power RB, STs, CB, the pass rush etc etc. There was a limit to what he could realistically accomplish in one offeason and I think he made some great moves to get the "best bang for the buck".

There really was no legit LT-outta-the-box availability to us in the draft. It was a weak OT-prospect class this year. Prob the only real 1st year LT was Kalil and we had zero shot at him. The other guys (Martin, Reiff, Adams) aren't going to start at LT for anyone this year. They might not even start at RT. You could make a case for taking DeCastro over a DE. DeC is going to be a helluva OG but that was a position of lesser priority and I'm sure Tice was counting on Webb getting his ass in gear @ LT and CWill resuming his solid play @ LG.

In round 2, we might of had a shot at Zeitler or Konz on the inside (liked them both) but it's hard to fault Emery's choice of Jeffery. This kid is going be a really good WR for us and I think he will contribute significantly (not a star, but an up-and-comer) in his rookie year. We know what PE did in 3 & 4 and can't fault him there either--2 really promising guys there. Traded away our 5th and, as Soul has pointed out many times, we got a steal of an udfa rookie in James Brown...who was projected as high as the mid-rounds. Grabbing him right after the draft was a solid move that was in effect our 5th round OL pick. Several teams woo'd him and he chose the Bears. Wisely on his part. I think this kid saw a team thin at OT and knew he had a better shot to make the roster here than most other places.

JB isn't going help us this year but maybe just maybe he's a player that will pay dividends 1-2 years down the road. The best shot we had at truly upgrading LT was last offseason when JA whiffed on Bushrod. There just weren't any good options this offseason.

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The main thing that I blame Emery with is the fact that he chose to address the DE position over the offensive line. I feel that the offensive line is a more pressing issue than our defense. Our defense's bad statistics last year were exacerbated by the fact that those last seven games saw our offense on the field very little due to the fact that neither Cutler nor Forte were around to add the necessary dynamic to it. While we did give up about 250 yards per game through air on defense, I tend to think that those stats went up by a good 20-30 yards per game because of the prior mentioned reasons. In fact, our defense was really just as good as it was in 2010 up until a certain point in the regular season. And remember that our defense practically shut down the Chiefs, Broncos, and Vikings during that span.

I will agree with you that the best opportunity we had to upgrade the LT position would have been to sign Jermon Bushrod in 2011 after the lockout. However, we had that idiot Angelo in control of the front office and he opted not to pull the trigger on either him or Willie Colon, who isn't even a LT. I will admit that Emery has done a lot good for this team in the brief time he's been in the front office, but I still think he whiffed on getting a T in the first round. Unlike you, I think Reiff was one of about two OTs in the first round along with Matt Kalil who could have started at LT, and that's despite his short arms. I think that even though he wouldn't be the finished product coming out of college, he would be more serviceable at the position than is Webb.

But hey, at least we're back to a competition between Webb and CWill at the LT position now! I'm eager to see how this plays out next week.