We could be wrong about Webb. This guy could have a solid year at LT.

Last night the kids had just left for college & my wife had crashed for the night. I couldn't sleep. I still had the Bears/Redskins game recorded, so I played that first half again. It was really one heck of a game while our starters were going against their starters.

One thing was undeniable. Webb had a good game.

If he could perform all season long, like he performed last Saturday night, we have our LT. I have been critical of Webb and Roach, basically judging them on their past. But both looked very good in that 'Skins game. Clearly they have improved, and both can be solid for us this year.

I'm sure a lot of you guys still have that Saturday game still recorded on your DVR. Don't take my word for Webb's performance. With an objective mind, go back and watch him. He was facing a really solid veteran DE in Stephen Bowen. Webb handled him really well, play after play.

I also noticed Tice was smart by giving Webb occasional support in chip blocks by RB's and TE's. It wasn't every play, but it was just enough to make a big difference. Nothing wrong with giving any LT some help. It's smart football.

I also watched C.Will. C.Will looked solid too. He is a good lineman IMHO. But if you watch the two guys working last Saturday, there is no denying C.Will isn't as good as Webb at LT. He is VERY decent. But Webb is better. I think we are going to have a good year from this oline, and we have some solid depth now in case we have a few (a few) injuries along the way. We won't miss a beat if C.Will has to come in for an injury to either of our starting tackles. That's a luxury we haven't had in a long time.

Good to hear. All too often we just hear "Webb sucked". Thanks for putting in both the time to analyze his play and to tell us.

I'd love for Webb to be a pro-bowl guy but I don't think he's shown he can improve that much. What will happen is he'll upgrade from awful to bad. Add in the chipping and scheming and many will think that he's "turned the corner". But in all reality it will still be a point of vulnerability at LT.

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Originally Posted by short faced bear

I'd love for Webb to be a pro-bowl guy but I don't think he's shown he can improve that much. What will happen is he'll upgrade from awful to bad. Add in the chipping and scheming and many will think that he's "turned the corner". But in all reality it will still be a point of vulnerability at LT.

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I think a lot of us share your concern Short. Let's face it, the level of improvement would have to be quite large, which is why I have been so skeptical. You seldom see guys make that kind of leap. However, I will say this; few teams have a Pro-Bowl LT and those that do likely spent a top 5 pick to get them. I would be tickled pink with just "average" to "meh, pretty good" from this kid and I think Jay would too. As far as the constant chipping/help goes, you are also right; when that is required, our offensive options are limited. However, from what I see in the modern NFL, most teams have to give their LT some help occasionally, especially against Pro-Bowl DE's. With that said, if we could reduce the help from "Almost always" to "occasionally", I could live with that as well.

I am not advocating FOR Webb, but at this point, I'm not against him either. He HAS showed promise occasionally, but he is so damned inconsistent it's maddening. Sometimes he makes Tice look pretty smart, but other times, he just looks like he's going through the motions. To me, that's more a maturity and motivation issue than anything else. I think he might actually have the physical talent (which I have even questioned in the past), but he needs to get that big ole chunk of meat that sits on his shoulders in the game.

The question I wonder is: If he gets posterized vs the Giants does he get pulled from his starting role or do they say "oh he went up against the best he'll bounce back next week". This constant just giving him the LT job w/o any real actual consequences nor competition is maddening.

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Originally Posted by short faced bear

I'd love for Webb to be a pro-bowl guy but I don't think he's shown he can improve that much. What will happen is he'll upgrade from awful to bad. Add in the chipping and scheming and many will think that he's "turned the corner". But in all reality it will still be a point of vulnerability at LT.

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But what if he's improved enough to be just an average LT? Not pro-bowler, but not bad? Just an average LT, like Garza is an average center? Or any of our players who do a decent job, but who are average at their position. A dline comparison would be Israel Idonije. Just a blue collar guy who can help us until we get someone better.

If you truly, objectively, watch Webb's blocks last Saturday, you can see that the guy played a solid game. Every Cutler play with Webb protecting his blind side, was good. Some of the other guys on the oline had bad plays (even Carimi had a couple of bad plays in that game that the announcers talked about during that game). Spencer looked bad.

Webb gave up zero sacks. He didn't have a single penalty in that span. He pretty much manhandled a solid veteran DE in Stephen Bowen.

I'm not one who cares about any player over another player. I really (truthfully) couldn't care less about who is our LT. It could be a circus monkey for all I care. But it has to be someone who can hold down the position well and protect Cutler like Webb did on Saturday.

I think we all need to be open to the POSSIBILITY that some of these players we didn't think were so good in the past may have improved (for me I lump Roach into this category).

One game doesn't make or break a guy. And consistency has been a problem for Webb in the past. All the more reason to watch this Giants game closely on Friday. If Webb can perform well again against the Super Bowl champs (who have a brutal pass rush) then we have a good LT for this season. One last thought. No matter who we play at LT, we are going to see Cutler get some sacks. There will be times when the best LT gets flat-beat. It's just like Peppers as our stellar DE, gets handled in some games. There were games last year where he pretty much disappeared. That didn't mean he's bad. Just that even the best players have bad moments or games.

Anyway, that's just my 2-cents worth. Probably only worth 2 cents :smile:

If he becomes even AVERAGE then great. Here's a point that works with anything: what evidence will be accepted weather or not he's good, bad, average etc?

Objectively, he plays on his heels. Objectively, he is light on his feet. and objectively, he is just handed the job w/o regard to performance.

I believe we've all made our points on this ad-infinitum.

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Originally Posted by short faced bear

If he becomes even AVERAGE then great. Here's a point that works with anything: what evidence will be accepted weather or not he's good, bad, average etc?

Objectively, he plays on his heels. Objectively, he is light on his feet. and objectively, he is just handed the job w/o regard to performance.

I believe we've all made our points on this ad-infinitum.

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Here's how I am personally trying to approach this FWIW. I am trying to give both LT guys the entire pre-season. It serves no useful purpose for me to definitively judge either of them (good, bad or average) right now. But, I am trying SO hard to be objective, and not let past bad performances color my thinking here. I believe young players can often evolve and improve these first few years, especially olinemen.

But to specifically answer your question regarding hard evidence of improvement, I calmed down and looked at this:

1) Did Webb give up any sacks? - No.
2) Did he have any penalties? - No.
3) Did he protect Cutler well? - Yes.
4) Did he run block well? - to be honest, I didn't closely monitor this in the last game. There were so many passing downs, and when the did run, it seemed like they didn't run to his side much.

And like I said earlier, I thought C.Will had a pretty good game too. Although I did notice that C.Will was bull rushed effectively a few times and driven back into Cutler's area of the pocket. Webb was much stronger against bull rushing in that game. Webb looked like an ironman against bull rush attempts in that game.

im in the camp of i hope webb can turn the corner cause i think we have the makings of a top offensive unit

the oline and injuries is the only thing that can hold us back imo

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Originally Posted by JustAnotherBearsFan99

Here's how I am personally trying to approach this FWIW. I am trying to give both LT guys the entire pre-season. It serves no useful purpose for me to definitively judge either of them (good, bad or average) right now. But, I am trying SO hard to be objective, and not let past bad performances color my thinking here. I believe young players can often evolve and improve these first few years, especially olinemen.

But to specifically answer your question regarding hard evidence of improvement, I calmed down and looked at this:

1) Did Webb give up any sacks? - No.
2) Did he have any penalties? - No.
3) Did he protect Cutler well? - Yes.
4) Did he run block well? - to be honest, I didn't closely monitor this in the last game. There were so many passing downs, and when the did run, it seemed like they didn't run to his side much.

And like I said earlier, I thought C.Will had a pretty good game too. Although I did notice that C.Will was bull rushed effectively a few times and driven back into Cutler's area of the pocket. Webb was much stronger against bull rushing in that game. Webb looked like an ironman against bull rush attempts in that game.

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We shall see how it pans out. I think were done quoting each other. Mo I agree.