5 Things We Learned: Still work to do

**JustAnotherBearsFan99** · 08-25-2012, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by soulman

If the DTs were shooting gaps to get to him then they need to look to the film to find out why. Were the linemen just slow coming off the ball and getting beat or were the blocking assignments themselves messed up? We know this line can run block. They did with a patchwork line last year. So what was the problem last night? Indecision or are they just so bad physically that they can be manhandled?

I'm gonna hazard a guess that it's mostly because of two things.

One, is that neither Spencer or Rachal play LG. Spencer took awhile to get settled in at RG last year after a career as an OC and this move probably isn't a good one for him and Rachal was also a RG when he played in SF. So trying to make switch hitter out of those two isn't working. Rachal couldn't pass block before and now we've just added to that problem by moving him to the opposite side of the line. Square pegs all over again.

Two, we have a LG who can play that spot and plays it well enough that he was a key reason that the running game did thrive last year. The only problem is that we're using him as a stick to beat our LT into some sort of progress this year so we can't use him where he's proven he can start only where he's proven that he can't. So you want an answer for why it's misfiring well that's at least one place to look.

Whenever you're lost the best place to return to is always the last place you were when you knew you weren't lost. So solving this problem at least from my perspective seems fairly easy and it starts with getting CWill back to LG as the starter. In order to do that we need a backup OT to play swing tackle. Just one lousy addition to that line coming from another teams waiver list would do it. If we survived with OMG in that role we should be able to find someone marginally better than that so that we at least have someone with NFL experience playing that #3 OT spot and then we work like hell on James Brown to coach him up and maybe later this year he'll be good enough to handle it.

I've been making the argument that CWill needs to stay at #3 OT but only because we have no one else who can do it, not because I think that's the best spot for him. If CWill moves back to LG it can only happen after we locate a replacement for him at OT. If we can do that then the line that starts in 2012 will be exactly the same as the one which started in 2011 and that line did show some promise before injuries upset the apple cart.

This seems like pretty straight forward logical thinking to me or am I missing something here?

Soul, they were getting manhandled like rag dolls. The worst play of the entire nightmare 1st half was one where Osi is lined up to Webb's left. We try to run up the middle. But Webb just lets Osi completely cross in front of him, untouched man.. untouched....and he cuts around Webb's right side to blow up the play. The announcers were dumfounded and they showed the play over

It was just a model example of how our oline players simply don't have the skills to play NFL ball (Carimi is our only NFL level talent on that whole roster).

And I have to laugh. We have fans touting Brown (the undrafted rook) as our hope for LT now. Did they WATCH Brown last night? Third string talent owning him. Just looked lost.

It's like the Bears think they can reach into the toilet and pull out an NFL-quality oline. You can reach in there. But what you pull out is gonna be pretty stinky. Like our oline.

Jerry Angelo put us in this mess. It's going to take one heck of an off season next year for Emery to fix this mess. They all need to go, except for Carimi. Build the line from scratch around Carimi.

**soulman** · 08-25-2012, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by JustAnotherBearsFan99

Soul, they were getting manhandled like rag dolls. The worst play of the entire nightmare 1st half was one where Osi is lined up to Webb's left. We try to run up the middle. But Webb just lets Osi completely cross in front of him, untouched man.. untouched....and he cuts around Webb's right side to blow up the play. The announcers were dumfounded and they showed the play over

It was just a model example of how our oline players simply don't have the skills to play NFL ball (Carimi is our only NFL level talent on that whole roster).

And I have to laugh. We have fans touting Brown (the undrafted rook) as our hope for LT now. Did they WATCH Brown last night? Third string talent owning him. Just looked lost.

It's like the Bears think they can reach into the toilet and pull out an NFL-quality oline. You can reach in there. But what you pull out is gonna be pretty stinky. Like our oline.

Jerry Angelo put us in this mess. It's going to take one heck of an off season next year for Emery to fix this mess. They all need to go, except for Carimi. Build the line from scratch around Carimi.

The first is just a pure lack of intensity on Webb's part but that's nothing new. There's a reason why a player with his physical gifts lasted until the 7th round. In Brown's case I'll chalk that up to inexperience........so far. If he's still doing it in his 3rd year like Webb then I'll call him stupid too.

I'll keep coming back to my same old answer as the solution for now. Better coordination can trump marginal talent. To paraphrase, "the line that plays together stays together". If Tice keeps shifting guys out of their natural spots they never will learn to play together. I don't know what his reason for doing it is but he's on of the most respected line coaches in the NFL so for now all we can do is wait and see what comes of it. He eventually got pretty good play out of what he had to work with last year so don't give up hope yet.

During Lovie's reign as HC the Bears have never practiced hard (as in fierce hitting) and they never seem to play very hard in the preseason either. My guess is that it's gonna take about four games before we know exactly what that offense is capable of beyond just the obvious so I'm not gonna panic much until then. Get pissed yeah, but panic no.

**JustAnotherBearsFan99** · 08-25-2012, 11:27 AM

Here's where I come down on this topic as of today. At some point, you have to have TALENT to work with. No more trying to make chicken salad out of chicken crap.

Talent.

I'm tired of hearing about pixie dust & gelling. Get some feakin TALENT in here and THEN take your 3 years to develop that talent. There is no magic here. There is no free lunch. You have to bring in HIGH QUALITY guys and THEN make them better.

It's no different than thinking you can pick any UFA and make him your franchise QB. It is not the best way to go. The Chicago Bears under Jerry Angelo are the "poster boys" of how you can really screw up an NFL oline.

**Riczaj01** · 08-25-2012, 12:13 PM

Soul makes some good points; at some point you cannot just toss OL'men around the line and expect them to play at a high level. CWill in 4 years w/the team has been LT, RT, RG, LG; and was injured during his LT shot. He's taken Garza from LG to C, Spencer from C to RG to LG, Louis from RT to RG. Carimi and Webb are the only ones that has had 2 years at the same position under Martz, one was a first rounder the other 7th..which one has performed the best?

You need talent, but when you have marginal talent you have to let them stay in one area that they are best at, and Tice has not done that. T, G, C is not interchangable like Tice seems to believe.

**JustAnotherBearsFan99** · 08-25-2012, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by Riczaj01

Soul makes some good points; at some point you cannot just toss OL'men around the line and expect them to play at a high level. CWill in 4 years w/the team has been LT, RT, RG, LG; and was injured during his LT shot. He's taken Garza from LG to C, Spencer from C to RG to LG, Louis from RT to RG. Carimi and Webb are the only ones that has had 2 years at the same position under Martz, one was a first rounder the other 7th..which one has performed the best?

You need talent, but when you have marginal talent you have to let them stay in one area that they are best at, and Tice has not done that. T, G, C is not interchangable like Tice seems to believe.

All great points Ric & Soul.

I have the feeling Emery (and his crew) will be better at evaluating oline talent, and do something like we saw him do for the WR's this year. Heck, we have talent to spare at WR now. I believe the oline will get that kind of love next year.

In the meantime. This is our team.

Forgive me for being devastated after last night's game. It was like witnessing a horrible train wreck with no survivors. I'm still in shock. I didn't expect it to be that bad. I think it's kind of like I was in denial until last night. I wanted so much to believe there was magic that Tice could perform on this group. It was a lot like when you're a kid and you find out there is no Santa Clause.

We have a team ready for a Super Bowl, minus an oline. That is where we are at.

**Riczaj01** · 08-25-2012, 12:29 PM

JABF, don't worry, I was depressed also. The line, mostly the left side is laughable. But I think you'll see the team use role outs to keep the D off balance; along w/TE's staying in and RB's chipping. I know Cutler was rushed most the night, and that led to a lot of the missed passes, but that didn't concern me as much, what really bothered me was the sive that was the gaps between C, LG and LG, LT. The RB's cannot gain yards if the DL is 2 yards behind the line before the handoff.
But I am heartened b/c Soul is right we were able to get production out of the run game last year, and I believe they will get that again. But if for some reason they don't, the whole O will shut down...I said that before the game(last week on my fb page) and it was the case yesterday.

**MarkBear** · 08-25-2012, 12:33 PM

Well hopefully, Tice will put the players back in their positions where we were last season. Like putting Chris back at LG? Praying with that, at least we were doable with the line in that position....we can only hope...

**JustAnotherBearsFan99** · 08-25-2012, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by MarkBear

Well hopefully, Tice will put the players back in their positions where we were last season. Like putting Chris back at LG? Praying with that, at least we were doable with the line in that position....we can only hope...

I'm wondering now if we would have been better off if Tice had done this in the beginning. Right now with all the flip-floppping we're as screwed as Hogan's goat. Even our DECENT average guys are now crap. Garza regressed because he's having to help out the LG's who suck. I'm convinced that's Garza's problem this year. He can play average ball, if he's not trying to bail out the pitiful LG's.

Get C.Will back to LG. Like NOW!

At LT we're just screwed for 2012. Webb is really bad. He'll have plenty of time to sell his T-shirts after he ruins our 2012 season. Watch. No team in the NFL will pick him up after this season.

Lance L. could be a decent backup next year. He's no starter. No way Jose. He looks butt ugly blocking. And Rachal? HOLY COW, he is pitiful with his feet. He can't run block, but he's even worse at pass blocking. San Francisco fans must be laughing at us, like we are laughing at Seattle for taking Omiyale.

The only guy worth keeping after this year is Carimi (and Lance L. should be a decent backup RG). And I laugh at those fans who think Brown will ever be NFL material. This is how sad we've become in Chicago. A pitiful UFA rook is being "crowned" as our LT of the future.

You gotta be kidding. I'm not drinking one drop more of the oline kool aid. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken crap. You don't pull anything pretty out of the toilet after taking a dump. I'm tired of the Bears reaching into the toilet for olinemen.

Get some quality talent here - and THEN coach 'em up.

Thread: 5 Things We Learned: Still work to do

LinkBack

Thread Tools

Posting Permissions