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Thread: Now Even the Seahawks Are Saying They Didn't Win the Game........

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    Mello Jello soulman's Avatar
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    Now Even the Seahawks Are Saying They Didn't Win the Game........

    Packer fans here's a toast to one of the worst officiating calls in the history of the NFL. This is about equal to that Lions game Terry McCauley and his crew hosed us out of back around 2004 or so. McCauley's crew called the game winning TD pass OB when the replay clearly showed it was in. But in those days there was no replay official in the booth to over turn it.

    Of course in this case it didn't matter anyway since he'd been bought off by the NFL not to over turn it. Goodell and the owners are a joke now. How much longer will they let this ride?

    Seahawks RB Marshawn Lynch stunned at replay of controversial final play Monday night



    SEATTLE – Several hours after the completion of one of the more memorable games in Monday Night Football history, Marshawn Lynch was sitting in a private room in the back of the Metropolitan Grill, celebrating a thrilling, last-second victory with friends and family members over big steaks and fat lobsters.


    Then, with the flick of a remote control, Big Brother appeared and left a rancid taste in the Seattle Seahawks halfback's mouth.
    Packers Tramon Williams (38), Charles Woodson (21) and safety M.D. Jennings (43) fight for possession. (AP)

    A waitress pointed the remote at the large mirror on the wall behind Lynch, and it suddenly morphed into an enormous, high-definition television screen. Within seconds, Lynch craned his neck and joined his dining companions in viewing a replay of rookie quarterback Russell Wilson's 24-yard touchdown pass to wideout Golden Tate, giving the Seahawks a 14-12 triumph as time expired and sending 68,218 fans at CenturyLink Field into hysterics.


    As Lynch watched Packers safety M.D. Jennings snatch the pass out of the sky and pull it to his chest while Tate, who had blatantly pushed off against Green Bay cornerback Sam Shields, belatedly latched on one arm at a time, the running back's eyes grew big and his jaw dropped low. The room was dead silent as the realization gripped Lynch and his companions: Like most of the viewing public, they now understood that the Seahawks had received an extraordinary gift from the replacement officials.


    "We didn't win that game," someone at the table said, and nobody made a peep to challenge him.


    By the time Lynch left the restaurant early Tuesday morning and, while waiting for his ride to arrive, reassured a group of Packers fans on Second Avenue almost apologetically that their team would bounce back from this bitter defeat, it was clear the league's already problematic officiating lockout had reached critical mass.

    Dramatic as it may sound, it's quite possible that history will look back on Tate's illusory jump-ball touchdown as the moment the NFL jumped the shark.


    The outcry over the replacement officials' game-deciding call (and the failure of the non-replacement replay officials to overturn it) crystallized the brewing anger toward NFL commissioner Roger Goodell and the owners he represents, whose collective insistence upon securing a favorable contract with the regular officials has clearly compromised the game's integrity.


    In the hours that followed, I heard from numerous current and former players and coaches – and not just because I got some unplanned TV time with Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers in the aftermath of Tate's catch/non-catch – who were aghast at the conspicuous intersection of incompetence and injustice.

    A player on one of the Packers' NFC North rivals who should have been heralding the outcome instead decried the play as "the worst call in NFL history." A veteran NFL assistant went even further, saying, "Oh, it's really bad. It's Tuck Rule bad. Rodney King bad."


    Memo to Goodell: That's bad.

    Officials signal after Golden Tate pulled in a last-second pass for a touchdown. (AP)
    Can't we all just get along? Not, apparently, when a staredown over money exists, and the owners are willing to put their own short-term economic interests over the quality of the product and the equality of competition. And while the anger surrounding one flawed finish might not put a dent in the bottom line, this regrettable Monday Night Mistake has the potential to stand as a seminal moment, a bullet that could penetrate the NFL's Kevlar vest of invulnerability.


    For the nation's most popular spectator sport to survive and thrive, there needs to be a perception of fairness, and a sense that the events that play out to the masses in high-def are being officiated with the highest degree of expertise. In ramming crews of tentative and obviously overmatched replacement officials down the public's throats for three regular season weeks and counting, the NFL is asking its customers to suspend disbelief, with the same just trust us presumption of which so many politicians are often deemed guilty.


    In that sense, the comparison of Tate's catch/non-catch to the Tuck Rule (or the Immaculate Reception, the Vinny Testaverde phantom touchdown, the numerous Bill Leavy errors that helped doom the Seahawks in Super Bowl XL, or whatever dubious officiating decisions of past years one might choose) might be misguided. The more apt analogy might go back a quarter-century to the 1987 players strike, when the league enlisted replacement players who would form the nucleus of their respective teams for three "games" which counted in the standings.


    If the Packers (1-2) miss the playoffs, or if the Seahawks (2-1) edge out another team for a postseason birth by a single game, the stain of Monday's game will linger for a long time. Green Bay's players, coaches and fans have a right to be furious, as do the bettors who lost money because of the officials' blunder, and the fantasy players who tasted defeat thanks to the last-second scoring play.


    It's a shame, because the game was notable for several other reasons, including the Seahawks' eight first-half sacks of Rodgers and the shrewd adjustments Packers coach Mike McCarthy made at halftime to protect his quarterback and spur his team back from a 7-0 deficit.
    Packers CB Sam Shields (L), safety Jerron McMillian (C) and Seahawks FS Earl Thomas (29) are stunned as they leave …And while this was a great way for Wilson to complete his third NFL game, he surely would have preferred that his magical comeback had been capped by a completion that survived the legitimacy test. As it was, the pass was a mini-miracle, given that Wilson, Y! Sports has learned, called the wrong play in the huddle before lining up for the fourth-and-10 attempt with eight seconds remaining. (Would this be a good example of irony, LOL)


    Instead of sending three receivers to the left corner of the end zone where Tate and Jennings ultimately fought for the ball, Wilson mistakenly called a "Waggle" play which called for him to roll right while several receivers ran underneath routes. Some Seahawks ran the play Wilson called, while others ran the one he was supposed to have called. Whatever – after he rolled right, drifted back to his left and planted at the 39-yard line before unleashing his high pass to the end zone, it all worked out in the end.


    Except, in the long run, it may not have worked out so well. For one thing, Monday night's shady finish was another blow to Goodell's authority in the eyes of many players, who struggled to reconcile the commissioner's insistence on protecting the shield with this power play that has turned the officiating situation into a mockery.

    One NFL assistant admitted to me Monday that because the replacement officials have been so tentative and obviously overwhelmed, attempts to intimidate and bully them into favorable calls are rampant. As another former player put it, "The NFL is all about intimidation. We prey on the weak – and these [replacement officials] are the weak."


    Given the league's massive popularity and tremendously favorable economics, it seems hard to imagine a world in which the NFL isn't a strong, sustainable force. Yet I'm convinced Monday's gaffe was a watershed moment, and I worry it might trigger a downward spiral that takes on a life of its own.


    Here's another analogy, one that I find a bit scary: If the powers that be don't watch out, might the NFL become like boxing?


    After peaking during Muhammad Ali's heyday in the '70s, boxing has largely become a fringe sport over the past two decades for two primary reasons: The obvious brutality and toll it takes upon the men who compete; and the fishy decisions that have engendered a pronounced lack of faith in the integrity of the matches.


    Given the growing concern surrounding head trauma and its haunting connection, perceived or proven, to the demise of so many gridiron warriors, the NFL has a serious health-and-safety issue to confront. And if the fans start to perceive the officiating to be as untrustworthy as that of ringside scorecards, the league will have an equally daunting problem on its hands.


    Goodell, too, may have a problem: While the owners seem staunchly supportive of the commissioner, who early this year signed a lucrative contract extension through the 2018 season, it will be interesting to see if the players view him as vulnerable – and apply their prey on the weak mentality accordingly.


    I hope I'm just being an alarmist in the wake of a crazy game, and I expect Goodell to remain in his job for a long time – but I don't think I'm overstating the reaction, or what is ultimately at stake.
    Seahawks head coach Pete Carroll celebrates with Michael Robinson. (AP)

    Of this much I am certain: As Lynch, his grandmother and several friends and business associates left that downtown Seattle steakhouse early Tuesday morning, they seemed a bit less exultant about the victory over the Packers than they had before that mirror became a TV screen, allowing them to see a sobering replay of the faux touchdown that rocked the football world.


    "It's not like we did anything wrong," Lynch said, shaking his head, as he stood on Second Avenue. "We have nothing to apologize for."

    He's right – the Seahawks don't. The owners do, however, and so does Goodell. And as long as this increasingly reckless lockout lasts, any after-the-fact apologies will seem as hollow as the football that Jennings pulled to his chest.
    I'm getting to that age where a lifetime warranty just doesn't mean as much to me anymore as an afternoon nap.



    Honey Badger Don't Care. Honey Badger Don't Give a Shit.


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    Mello Jello soulman's Avatar
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    Roger Goodell needs to immediately clean up NFL officiating mess … and issue a public apology

    Tue, Sep 25, 2012 1:22 AM EDT




    Sometime Tuesday afternoon, after an emergency session of some NFL owners subcommittee and a quick folding in front of a federal labor mediator, commissioner Roger Goodell should step in front of a podium, declare the lockout of the league's referees over and apologize to the coaches, players, fans and replacement officials for the last three weeks of football.


    It's the owners who are locking out the refs and must sign off on a contract. And it is the owners who employ Goodell. But at some point, Goodell has to lead his bosses. That's the mark of a great commissioner, and make no mistake, Roger Goodell believes he is a great commissioner.


    A great commissioner doesn't stand around and let his league continue on as a laughingstock.


    Monday in Seattle, the Seahawks managed to beat Green Bay 14-12 on a Hail Mary pass that the Packers intercepted, but two replacement refs – each appearing terrified at making the call – did nothing. They then made opposite decisions – one signaled what could be an interception, one a definitive TD – but, only, well, there's no good way to explain this.


    "I've never seen anything like that in all my years of football," Packers coach Mike McCarthy said. "Very unusual. Most unusual game I've been a part of."

    You've seen the replay. If not, turn on a TV and wait 15 seconds. Expect President Obama and Mitt Romney to weigh in by noon. This is Goodell's Heidi game, a forever blemish he'll never live down. The lockout may not have been his idea but it's on his watch. Someone might as well start pre-production on a documentary now, the image of those two confused refs in the corner of the Seattle end zone is sure to go down in history.


    In financial terms, the NFL and the officials union are reportedly battling over about $3 million annually in pension commitments, a drop in the bucket for a $9 billion organization. Like most employers, the NFL doesn't want to deal with pensions anymore, the chief reason this has dragged out. There are also plenty of issues that the union is holding too hard a line also. It's a labor dispute; no one is completely innocent.


    But it's the NFL dealing with the fallout. Does it really want another week of being a bad version of pro wrestling? At least in the WWE, there is a satisfying ending to the script.


    The replacement ref experiment is a disaster. It has overwhelmed the league. It's overshadowed strong play. It's turned Goodell's vaunted shield into a joke.


    The league didn't find properly trained referees capable of handling the task. It didn't spend enough time training them during the offseason. It didn't back them up immediately when the season began to the constant complaints, criticism and in-game histrionics from players and coaches. That allowed the after-play protests to become constant distractions. That has brought out the worst of their personalities and put it on display.


    On back-to-back nights, during its prime-time games, the NFL experienced chaos. In the first, two head coaches [Bill Belichick and John Harbaugh] made physical contact with referees, sandwiching a finish that defied all explanation. Then Green Bay lost a game it won. Seattle won a game it lost. And in Las Vegas, not to mention in books across America, who knows who won or lost what.

    "It was awful," Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers said. "Just look at the replay. And then the fact that it was reviewed?" It's uncertain even why it was reviewed, which merely led to more chaos. (It's not uncertain why. All scoring plays are now reviewed automatically)



    This was just the highest-profile disaster of three weeks building toward it. Too often the games have no flow, no credibility. It's a parade of flags, confused calls and replay-booth bailouts. It doesn't feel like football. The announcers are so enraged they lose focus.
    The replacement refs are trying but they aren't remotely prepared. The NFL should've seen this coming and done better. Then again, you can't shine a sneaker: The speed of the game is just overwhelming for Division III and high school officials. The replacement refs aren't trying to screw things up; in fact, they appear so petrified at screwing things up that they overcompensate and screw it up even more.


    And just wait until Week 4, after days and days of the fallout from this game.


    Goodell has preached and punished with a single focus on "protecting the shield" against any and all tarnish. He's bullied players and batted around coaches.


    Now here's his biggest challenge: to stand up to the billionaires that sign his check, end the labor dispute and get on with this. Right now is Goodell's moment to prove he's as tough and as smart and as savvy as he likes to act when he's sitting down an individual behavior for some transgression. (That's a joke. He's a puppet, a straw man, and a stooge for owners like Jerry Jones who cares more about what goes in his pocket than he does his players, their fans, or the league itself)



    Goodell's NFL is a mess right now. A joke. A punch line. That's what it will continue to be until this gets solved. The regular refs will continue to make mistakes, calls will be blown, controversies will continue. But it won't be this, because it's never been this.
    The game is a sideshow. The brilliant performances are an afterthought. The credibility is in question.


    To that Goodell needs to end it now before it churns on and on.
    And then he needs to apologize to everyone for what's already occurred.
    I'm getting to that age where a lifetime warranty just doesn't mean as much to me anymore as an afternoon nap.



    Honey Badger Don't Care. Honey Badger Don't Give a Shit.


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    Mello Jello soulman's Avatar
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    Seattle-Green Bay touchdown call could have altered $250 million in bets

    By Jay Busbee | Shutdown Corner – 17 hours ago

    Guess what happens next. (Getty Images)

    So, get this: Apparently some people actually bet on sports! And when Monday night's Packers-Seahawks game ended with a controversial call that appeared to give the win to exactly the wrong team, hundreds of millions of dollars wagered on the game flowed in a different direction! And believe it or not, that might make some people a little angry!


    Anytime a decisive play alters the ending of a game -- a last-second field goal, a walkoff homer, a miracle chip from off the green -- some gamblers win and some lose. That's the nature of the business, of course. But it's predicated on the idea that such occurrences are natural, acceptable (if insanely frustrating) costs of doing business.


    What drives gamblers insane is the possibility that what happened on the field doesn't show up in the final score, and that's apparently the case from Monday night's game. When Russell Wilson lofted his final pass, Green Bay was ahead by five, covering a spread of 3 1/2. When Golden Tate got at least a hand on the ball, apparently enough to consider it a touchdown in the eyes of a referee, that gave Seattle the win both on the field and against the spread. Boom: instant reversal.


    So how much money are we talking here? ESPN.com quotes John Avello, director of The Wynn Las Vegas' sports book, as saying the total in play could have been $150 million. Online gambling officials pegged the number at a staggering quarter-billion dollars.


    At least one sports book has apparently decided to sidestep the controversy by refunding the losers their money in the form of a free play, according to NESN. Sportsbook.com took the unusual step because, as one company official put it, "I can't stand winning unfairly so I am going to give the punters their money back."


    Will it pressure other outlets to do so? Perhaps, but that of course isn't the real issue here. Nor are the ethics of gambling in general. When the NFL loses its perception of integrity, when the games come across as (best-case scenario) so incompetently managed that legitimate betting is impossible, this is far beyond a simple labor problem. This is now about the foundation of the league itself.
    I'm getting to that age where a lifetime warranty just doesn't mean as much to me anymore as an afternoon nap.



    Honey Badger Don't Care. Honey Badger Don't Give a Shit.


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    Senior Member Wolfman's Avatar
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    How the hell do you attached a quote to Lynch made by a nameless "somebody at the table?"


    Reductio ad absurdum...it's how we roll...

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    Senior Member MPBears68's Avatar
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    Not denying the replacement officials are in way over their heads and have become a distraction and a farce and are hurting the NFLs reputation, but...

    ...the real screwup on that whole play IMO was the missed blatant OPI by Tate. Nothing else to follow would have mattered if that had been called right.

    ...Jennings caught the ball first clearly, but he was IN THE AIR. By the time he got two feet down, there was disputed/contested/mutual possession of the ball with Tate also having two feet down. A lot of people seem fixated on the former fact and are ignoring the latter. A reception (or interception) isn't established merely by catching the ball. It requires grasp/possession AND two feet down in bounds.

    ...the replacements were subject to extra "second guessing" by many questionable and blown calls leading up to that point all season and because the two dummies issued contradictory signals w/o conferring first. If they had met and agreed first or both called the same thing, there would be a little less angst over this.

    ...the catch call was reviewed by REGULAR booth officials, NOT replacements. They couldn't find compelling evidence to overturn it. That ought to tell you that the reception "tie goes to the offense" call on the field wasn't quite as clear-cut and blatantly obvious as everyone is making it seem. Generous to home team Seattle, yes. Indisputably a pick, no.

    ...everyone wants the regular officials back, me included. This isn't all on just "asshole Goodell" or the "greedy owners" though. If I were writing the checks and a group of my part-time employees (who refuse to agree to full time status/requirements) were insisting that I provide them with dinosaur employer-guaranteed defined benefit pension plans (which obligate me financially for decades), I'd tell them to F off and look for replacement employees too.

    Just a few other thoughts to mull over while the heat of the issue is still red hot. I hope cooler heads prevail on both sides and there's a resolution soon.

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    Specialist Henry Burris's Avatar
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    This has what to do with the Bears? With that said, I have NO sympathy for any player or team, the NFL or the "real" refs. They are all playing the system as it best suits them, and while I don't fault them for that, they're all abusing the hell out of these temp. refs that are just trying to do their job (and statistically aren't doing it much worse than "real" refs), and you have players and coaches bitching to the point where it makes them lose their focus on things (like Harbaugh's dumbass getting 6 timeouts in the second half). These players wanna keep whining? Good, I hope the replacement refs are in all year, and eventually all get hired on full time.


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    Senior Member blinddeafmute's Avatar
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    I will pay one dollar to anyone that can show me a picture with indisputable evidence of Tate not having posession of the ball.

    Until then, I will continue to believe that the majority of people are just blowing bullshit about replacement refs without having a clue....

    So, heres the challenge, start hunting for pics or video that proves it should have been overturned. Ready, go.

    P.s., I hope none of you cocksuckers are ever selected for jury duty....

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    Senior Member lklrlolnlilklsox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soulman View Post
    A player on one of the Packers' NFC North rivals who should have been heralding the outcome instead decried the play as "the worst call in NFL history." A veteran NFL assistant went even further, saying, "Oh, it's really bad. It's Tuck Rule bad. Rodney King bad."
    So, apparently someone in the NFC North is a total fucking dumbass. Hope it wasn't a Bear who dropped the Rodney King line, because that's just babytown frolics.

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    The Rhymenoceros Jimmors's Avatar
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    Im just getting sick of everyone blaming the refs for "costing" the Packers a game, while completely ignoring the fact that the Packers only scored 12 friggin points to begin with.

    You dont want your chances to come down to ticky tacky calls from the refs? Put more damn points on the board. Even a FG would have given em a 9 point lead instead of the 6 they had on that play.
    I'm trying//to let go//of maybe//but maybe's just so//very interesting//Oh, what a thing.

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    Certified Oline Zealot JustAnotherBearsFan99's Avatar
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    blinddeafmute, you're too late - I've already served on a number of juries over the years.
    Last edited by JustAnotherBearsFan99; 09-26-2012 at 12:21 PM.
    Trestman - Kromer - Tucker - DeCamillis

    I'm looking forward to seeing these guys coach. Hope they're good.


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