So Culter is a bad leader?

**JustAnotherBearsFan99** · 10-02-2012, 11:05 PM

Originally Posted by soulman

Oh yeah. Did you let your DI or your Platoon Sargent know you felt that way?

I knew someone would bring this up Soul

It's a great question. Boot camp to a Marine is like a rooks first training camp. You take a lot of crap. But then you go out into the "Real World" of actually being a Marine. Any ex-jarhead will tell you it ain't boot camp. Even infantry training is a far cry from boot camp. People (at least in my limited experience) don't yell at you like boot camp. You may lose your temper with a guy, like Cutler did with Webb (I'm not condemning Cutler for yelling at Webb. Just saying yelling doesn't equate to being a good leader).

Great leaders in sports, business, military - anywhere - have something special inside that motivates others to be their best.

I've personally never known a great leader who yelled at his people. They all led by example. Like a Julius Peppers. A guy who goes out and busts his butt and gets it done. People listen to leaders like that, not because they are yellers, but doers. I believe coaches can be great leaders, and yell at players, but not players yelling at each other. I'm sure there are exceptions to this.

I hope people here don't think I'm a Cutler hater. I'm not. I'm mighty glad he's our QB. And like I said earlier. He can be a complete butt hole, as long as "Good Jay" stays around instead of "Bad Jay".......I just want to win.

**KenMasters** · 10-02-2012, 11:17 PM

Originally Posted by JustAnotherBearsFan99

I knew someone would bring this up Soul

It's a great question. Boot camp to a Marine is like a rooks first training camp. You take a lot of crap. But then you go out into the "Real World" of actually being a Marine. Any ex-jarhead will tell you it ain't boot camp. Even infantry training is a far cry from boot camp. People (at least in my limited experience) don't yell at you like boot camp. You may lose your temper with a guy, like Cutler did with Webb (I'm not condemning Cutler for yelling at Webb. Just saying yelling doesn't equate to being a good leader). But great leaders in sports, business, military - anywhere - have something special inside that motivates others to be their best.

I've personally never known a great leader who yelled at his people. They all led by example. Like a Julius Peppers. A guy who goes out and busts his butt and gets it done. People listen to leaders like that, not because they are yellers, but doers.

I hope people here don't think I'm a Cutler hater. I'm not. I'm mighty glad he's our QB. And like I said earlier. He can be a complete butt hole, as long as "Good Jay" stays around instead of "Bad Jay".......I just want to win.

Peppers isnt dependent on another player for his safety. Jay needs Webb to play well, or he gets hit. If the Linemen arent playing well, they should hear about it. And they have been terrible for years.

**soulman** · 10-02-2012, 11:19 PM

Originally Posted by JustAnotherBearsFan99

I knew someone would bring this up Soul

It's a great question. Boot camp to a Marine is like a rooks first training camp. You take a lot of crap. But then you go out into the "Real World" of actually being a Marine. Any ex-jarhead will tell you it ain't boot camp. Even infantry training is a far cry from boot camp. People (at least in my limited experience) don't yell at you like boot camp. You may lose your temper with a guy, like Cutler did with Webb (I'm not condemning Cutler for yelling at Webb. Just saying yelling doesn't equate to being a good leader). But great leaders in sports, business, military - anywhere - have something special inside that motivates others to be their best.

I've personally never known a great leader who yelled at his people. They all led example.

I hope people here don't think I'm a Cutler hater. I'm not. I'm mighty glad he's our QB. And like I said earlier. He can be a complete butt hole, as long as "Good Jay" stays around instead of "Bad Jay".......I just want to win.

Just like a couple of weeks ago I'm opting out of these Cutler discussions as it relates to anything other than whether or not he's playing good football. As long as he moves the offense and wins games for us I don't care who he yells at or how often he does it. When he doesn't do that I'll talk about his performance as a QB and not his behavior. We have a deal him and I. If I don't criticize his behavior then he won't criticize mine. You all should try it. Save those antacid tablets for when you really need them.

He can yell at Webb, and he can yell at Marshall. He can yell at everybody on the offense for all I care and if he's brave enough he can yell at Pep and Urlacher too for all I care. I don't give a rip if he walks away from Tice if that's even what he did and I also don't care if he calls Lovie whatever racial epithet pops into his head. I just don't care about any of it because whatever it looks like and however it's being reported has virtually nothing to do with how it actually went down.

So.......I also don't care whether he won't get up to do 2:00 AM feedings, help Kristin with diaper changes or run to the store at midnight because they're out of formula. He can kick dogs, drowned cats and refuse to help old ladies across the street. He's the QB of my football team, not my spiritual leader or the head of my grandson's cub scout pack. All I care about is Jay the QB of the Chicago Bears and as long as he plays like he did last night I like him just fine.

**JustAnotherBearsFan99** · 10-02-2012, 11:22 PM

Originally Posted by soulman

Just like a couple of weeks ago I'm opting out of these Cutler discussions as it relates to anything other than whether or not he's playing good football. As long as he moves the offense and wins games for us I don't care who he yells at or how often he does it. When he doesn't do that I'll talk about his performance as a QB and not his behavior. We have a deal him and I. If I don't criticize his behavior then he won't criticize mine. You all should try it. Save those antacid tablets for when you really need them.

He can yell at Webb, and he can yell at Marshall. He can yell at everybody on the offense for all I care and if he's brave enough he can yell at Pep and Urlacher too for all I care. I don't give a rip if he walks away from Tice if that's even what he did and I also don't care if he calls Lovie whatever racial epithet pops into his head. I just don't care about any of it because whatever it looks like and however it's being reported has virtually nothing to do with how it actually went down.

So.......I also don't care whether he won't get up to do 2:00 AM feedings, help Kristin with diaper changes or run to the store at midnight because they're out of formula. He can kick dogs, drowned cats and refuse to help old ladies across the street. He's the QB of my football team, not my spiritual leader or the head of my grandson's cub scout pack. All I care about is Jay the QB of the Chicago Bears and as long as he plays like he did last night I like him just fine.

That's my feeling too Soul. He can be a complete butt hole, as long as "Good Jay" stays around and we win.

p.s. Ric was the only smart guy here. He stayed away from this thread. I shouldn't have touched this thread with a ten foot pole. But, I've never been the "smart one"

**JustAnotherBearsFan99** · 10-02-2012, 11:31 PM

Originally Posted by KenMasters

Peppers isnt dependent on another player for his safety. Jay needs Webb to play well, or he gets hit. If the Linemen arent playing well, they should hear about it. And they have been terrible for years.

Ken, those are all good points.

**loki520** · 10-03-2012, 12:39 AM

Cheeseburger, you need to make some non trollish-like posts. If every post you make in the Bears forum is gonna be anti-Jay and pro-Rodgers, Ima bounce your cheesy troll ass outta here.

If, on the other hand, you wanna hang around the RIVAL forums and talk smack, go right ahead... but it better be statistically sound, in a civil manner, and not so aggressive that it offends a normal person.

On to the topic...

Yelling for the sake of yelling doesn't equate to good/great leadership.

Yelling, because behavioral occupational failure risks life and limb, doesn't necessarily NOT equate to good/great leadership. If you DEMAND exceptional service, of any kind, and someone fails to deliver... it us understandable that the effected person may snap and lose their temper. You simply can NOT define leadership by the absence/presence of yelling/anger, with the exception of the leader that never does anything but yell. Jay doesn't fall into that category and is understandably frustrated at the failure of simple things. Like, for instance, blocking. It's what you are there fore. It's 95% of your job description. If you fail, the entire team fails.

Since the vet's have brought it military service... Patton is known for his great leadership among other things, one of which was his temper when he thought someone was malingering. He even slapped two soldier's over it was required to apologize. Some people clamored for him to be relieved. And thankfully the USA refused to so because he was exceedingly GREAT as a leader of combat troops. They KNEW that his troops would follow him, no matter what, not because he didn't yell (which he did), but because they knew they were gonna kick some serious ass BECAUSE of him.

And Chesty "Take me to the Brig. I want to see the real Marines" Puller didn't have that kind of temper and was/is/remains the Marine's Marine!

Two entirely different styles by, without a doubt, two of the best combat leaders in U.S. History.

It's not the occasional yelling. It's the success you allow everyone to achieve that defines good/great leadership.

**loki520** · 10-03-2012, 01:25 AM

Originally Posted by darimpalke

I welcome all who have not seen I'm glad to visit this place! I will be glad to meet you!

And we welcome all who have seen you're glad to visit this place.

And unfortunately for you, those that have seen saw spam.

Good bye.

**JJ-30** · 10-03-2012, 06:51 AM

It would seem that a lot of people were very wrong about what happen between Tice and Cutler on Monday. Cutler wasn't walking away from Tice just getting some water. What ESPN didn't show was Cutler returned and sat next to Tice after he got a drink.

http://espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/story...king-mike-tice

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:8454763

**XxMidwayMonstersxX** · 10-03-2012, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by JustAnotherBearsFan99

There are better ways to lead than to publicly humiliate a person. My experience may be different than others, so this may not apply to football. My entire adult life was spent in the Marines & 30 years of law enforcement work. I was a leader of men most of my life (including being a SWAT team leader). In the Marines & in law enforcement, men would follow you all the way to their death if they respected you. In the Marines, in wartime, if you publicly humiliated a person you wouldn't get much out of him (at best), and at worst you'd end up dead (fragged by your own man). In law enforcement you earned respect by leading by example. Men would follow you into situations where there was a good chance of injury or death - they'd have your back, literally - if they respected you. If you publicly humiliated them, well, good luck with THAT one.

I'm not at all anti-Cutler. But he's not a good leader of men. And regarding Webb's performance last night, I look at that as the culmination of better play calling, getting help blocking, better scheme & a better LG by his side. That's it. It isn't that Webb has been TRYING to suck in previous games.

That's just MHO.

p.s. In the early years, Walter Payton, played behind some pitiful linemen. I never once saw the man humiliate his linemen publicly. He had too much class to do that.

Man I don't know how anyone else feels, but this guys is making some sense here. Thumbs up on this post. My personal opinion is that the coaching staff has adjusted the scheme in order to keep this left tackle situation from blowing up. There were about 15 plays last game where Webb absolutely HAD to hold his block solo and earn that paycheck. The coaching staff over estimated what Webb was capable of in the Green Bay game and they have since corrected it.

If you think that Jay Cutler crying like a baby had anything to do with Webb seeming to play better then you are really drinking the JC kool-aid.

Also, and I am just throwing this out there, aside from Webb (who is obviously gone next year) our OL is not bad at all. In fact I'd say they are pretty darn average and I'm getting sick of people calling them out. Its a position that most fans don't know anything about so all this discussion about it really blows my mind. Its not like QB or WR where you can tell if the ball is thrown off the mark or if the WR should have had it. Its much more difficult to tell who should have blocked who and what the play was supposed to be.

**Rogelio** · 10-03-2012, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by soulman

So you've seen the movie "Kingpin" too Rog?

Good movie.

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