So Culter is a bad leader?

After last nights game, I would like to point something out that is painfully obvious to me. Jay Cutler's rant toward J Webb during the Green Bay game came with unrelenting abuse from the media both locally and nationally, as well as some of the fans of the team Jay plays for. A few of us had Jay's back, and I shared my opinion that in fact, it is sometimes incumbent on a good leader to dress down a problem individual, in public if necessary, for the good of the whole. It is not recommended to make a habit of it, but sometimes, when everything else fails, a little public humiliation is effective for those that have a little too much meat in the noggin. In other words, it is used as a last resort, and I can think of no other time when Cutler has done it. To do so, the leader must have a sack of iron as this is not easy to do. Actually it is much easier to simply remain quiet, but in my mind, to remain quiet when action is needed is not the path of a leader. A leader is the one that steps up and takes the necessary action when everyone else is simply "doing their job" and being quiet. So while Jay has continued to catch grief as a result of the pussification of our society and the warped sense of leadership that some have attributed to "NFL Quarterbacks", allow me to ask this one question:

Has J'Marcus Webb played better and kept Jay Cutler cleaner since his verbal reprimand by his QB?

Just askin.

Couldn't agree more. The "toughness" and the "team player" mentality bug me also. On the one hand you got guys who say after a loss "it's on me". But if you bench them like say a Sanchez "NO you can't do that you'll destroy his confidence!" Hell-O? If he's mentally tough getting benched isn't a big whup and if he's a "team player" he should sit himself down. Someone tell me the last time a player benched himself who was playing bad and wasn't injured.

Perhaps Jay needed a moment to calm himself. I'd rather have that in a competitor with a bit of fire than a subversive yes man. It's like it's some unwritten PC rule that you can't get a bit mad out there. It's a different era in terms of hitting perhaps but it's still football and if you can't get upset once in awhile then you'd better put the flags on and have 9th place participation trophies.

I will say though JC needs to improve his body language as it's sometimes when you don't think anyone is looking that people look to you.

There are better ways to lead than to publicly humiliate a person. My experience may be different than others, so this may not apply to football. My entire adult life was spent in the Marines & 30 years of law enforcement work. I was a leader of men most of my life (including being a SWAT team leader). In the Marines & in law enforcement, men would follow you all the way to their death if they respected you. In the Marines, in wartime, if you publicly humiliated a person you wouldn't get much out of him (at best), and at worst you'd end up dead (fragged by your own man). In law enforcement you earned respect by leading by example. Men would follow you into situations where there was a good chance of injury or death - they'd have your back, literally - if they respected you. If you publicly humiliated them, well, good luck with THAT one.

I'm not at all anti-Cutler. But he's not a good leader of men. And regarding Webb's performance last night, I look at that as the culmination of better play calling, getting help blocking, better scheme & a better LG by his side. That's it. It isn't that Webb has been TRYING to suck in previous games.

That's just MHO.

p.s. In the early years, Walter Payton, played behind some pitiful linemen. I never once saw the man humiliate his linemen publicly. He had too much class to do that.

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Originally Posted by JustAnotherBearsFan99

There are better ways to lead than to publicly humiliate a person. My experience may be different than others, so this may not apply to football. My entire adult life was spent in the Marines & 30 years of law enforcement work. I was a leader of men most of my life (including being a SWAT team leader). In the Marines & in law enforcement, men would follow you all the way to their death if they respected you. In the Marines, in wartime, if you publicly humiliated a person you wouldn't get much out of him (at best), and at worst you'd end up dead (fragged by your own man). In law enforcement you earned respect by leading by example. Men would follow you into situations where there was a good chance of injury or death - they'd have your back, literally - if they respected you. If you publicly humiliated them, well, good luck with THAT one.

I'm not at all anti-Cutler. But he's not a good leader of men. And regarding Webb's performance last night, I look at that as the culmination of better play calling, getting help blocking, better scheme & a better LG by his side. That's it. It isn't that Webb has been TRYING to suck in previous games.

That's just MHO.

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Well Marines and Soldiers don't always agree. I would suggest your experience in the Marines is more appropriate for this comparison than that of a SWAT team leader as SWAT team members have already proven to be elite at what they do. However, I would guess that your Marine Corp experience and my Army experience are relatively similar, and occasionally you would come across someone that was on the receiving end of a good face scream in front of his squad/platoon/Company. It was my observation that the recipient was a F-UP and said action was a last resort, but often it would either send them packing or straighten their ass up.

You could be right about the final result. Perhaps his play over the last two games was the result of better play calling, or help chipping, or better scheme or better play next to him. However, they have had two years to do all that. I know this isn't an exact science and this isn't a direct Post Hoc ergo Proctor Hoc situation, but it is curious that he has started to play better since then. Lets see how the rest of the season plays out for him.

Also, please don't assume that my defense of Cutlers actions constitutes a belief that this type of leadership style for everyone and in every scenario. I do not believe that either, but I do believe in a last resort, specific circumstance situation that it is not only appropriate, but necessary. In other words, it's the nuclear option with all other methods attempted first. I really believe Mr. Webb was at that point, and it may have worked. We'll see.

Good points. And leadership styles do differ. I've just been motivated by people who led by example. Quiet competent guys that I believed in.

Cutler does get too much scrutiny. Also, as long as he plays like last night I'm OK with him whether he's a leader or not :smile:

http://www.dabears.com/images/smilie...t/18_1_205.gif

Webb deserved to get his ass chewed since Clay Mathews kept running right past him and planting Jays ass into the ground too many times.

Big difference between Petyon Manning, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees vs. Jay Cutler..............those 4 QBs are elite and have two other things in common...............Super Bowl Championships and league MVP awards. These men, when asked about their respective demeanor, didn't get coy about it and admitted it happened Cutler is less than forthcoming. Man up and admit what happened when asked by the media.

So you are implying that Manning/Brady/Brees/Rodgers never did that before they won a championship?


Oh, and I'm pretty sure that while "If you want someone that doesn't care back there..." doesn't directly address the question of were you yelling at them, it is admitting that he was yelling.

For me, I think it comes down to a simple question. What is the job of a leader? Obviously, to lead. Now try answering with out using the word "lead". Is the job to be everyone's friend? Or is it to get every person to perform as well as needed to achieve the team goal(winning)? Personally, I figure its' the latter. There are many ways to lead. Getting everyone on the same page, then letting them do their jobs is one, grabbing the flag and yelling "Follow Me!" is another, and being the crazy/scary guy in the back with a whip and a(n electric) cattle prod is a third. (There are, sadly, far too many of that third type). Nowhere does it say a leader NEEDS to be everyone's friend.

Any decent leader doesn't WANT to be of the third type, but part of being a leader is that, from time to time, corrections have to be made. Ideally, this can be done behind closed doors, far removed from the circumstances. However, if the need is urgent, and the corrected individual is not changing their behavior, then more powerful correction may be needed. Is public humiliation the ideal correction? NEVER. But, it is on the list, usually as a last resort.

It would be nice if we could judge how good a leader someone is by how well we can all sit around campfires, toast marshmallows, and sing "koom-bye-yaah", but that just isn't how it works.

Remember the part of your military experience during which civilians are changed into soldiers or marines? I remember it being called "basic training", and I also recall a lot of screaming, yelling, "corrective training", and on (very) rare occasions public humiliation.

What I saw was JC attempting to install a real time correction in an individual who (at the time) was felt to be significantly under performing the expectations, and maybe even his talent. Looking at the efforts to motivate Webb during the off season, I presumed that this was (at least in part) an effort to motivate him, not arbitrarily bad leadership.

For me, this was largely a non-issue to begin with.

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Originally Posted by BearStuff

So you are implying that Manning/Brady/Brees/Rodgers never did that before they won a championship?


Oh, and I'm pretty sure that while "If you want someone that doesn't care back there..." doesn't directly address the question of were you yelling at them, it is admitting that he was yelling.

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Apparently you didn't hear how he addressed his ignoring of Tice last night. I believe he said he was going to get a drink of water. Yeah...sure Jay. If he was that upset at Tice then have it out with Tice. Don't be a baby and walk away. Communicate....verbally. The problem I have with Cutler is that he was just as responsible for the poor play against the Packers (4 Ints) as J'Marcus Webb was. Why didn't he get on Marshall for dropping the TD pass in Green Bay? Those in glass houses is certainly applicable for Cutler. He's less than a stellar QB. When the Bears went up 24-7 just remember that the offense scored less points than the defense at that point. I would hardly call Cutler's performance fantastic against one of the weaker secondary's in the league.