We Haven't Played Anybody!

**soulman** · 10-08-2012, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by XxMidwayMonstersxX

I'd rather have Martz than Tice as OC at this point. Martz was moving the ball with inferior players. Tice has some real weapons at his hands and cant get it done. Tice was a great OL Coach but not an offensive minded coach. He just doesnt get it. I mean we compare pretty well with anyone in the league talent wise and you are telling me we can only come up with 3 points in the 1st half??? Give me a break.

BEAR DOWN

You're kidding right?

Have you considered the fact that Mike Martz has been considered an offensive genius around the league ever since his days with the Rams yet after that stint he failed to succeed as either a HC or an OC at every job he's held since! Martz was getting Cutler killed with an outdated offense featuring 7 steps drops and slow developing complicated pass routes.

Martz would also not adapt his system to the players he had and IMHO was as much or more to blame for the losses after Cutler went down than anyone. Cutler was resisting him and beginning to run things in the way that was best for him not Martz. When Hanie came in Martz went right back to his old ways knowing full well that Hanie wouldn't stand up to him like Cutler did. He put his inexperienced QB in the worst of all possible positions as far as what he could handle. Since he never had any faith on him to begin with it was almost as if he was delighted to see him fail.

I don't how you can say Tice isn't an offensive minded coach when he was a QB in college, a TE in the pros and during his time as HC of the Vikings they had one of the top passing offenses in the NFL. Mike Tice is an inexperienced OC (he had Scott Linehan as an OC in Minny) and play caller and I'll agree with you that it shows but to say he's not an offensive minded coach isn't correct.

Most of us are far from happy with the overall offensive results these past four games but each week the offense has improved, gained more yardage and put up more points, 16, 20 and this week 27 so as long as they keep moving in a positive direction it's a good sign. You also have to consider that we were without Forte for most of two games and all of a third. He's worth at least 7 points a game when he plays.

I'm not completely happy with it either but sometimes a team comes out flat. It's what they do to adjust and overcome that that counts. Lately we've been saying that the Bears don't finish strong on either side of the ball. Well yesterday reversed that trend in a big way didn't it?

**BigClaws** · 10-08-2012, 07:48 PM

Originally Posted by XxMidwayMonstersxX

I'd rather have Martz than Tice as OC at this point.

This is where I stopped reading.

**XxMidwayMonstersxX** · 10-08-2012, 07:53 PM

No I'm not kidding...

See my above post about the KC game last year.

Don't be a drone man, you sound like every other Marty hater out there. Yes you have a point, he wasn't perfect and he did make some poor calls. 7 step drops are hard to execute, so are 5 steps. But most fans don't even know what a 5 or 7 step drop is until some announcer says so. Some of those 5 and 7 steppers worked great, but you never heard about that did ya? I'm not arguing he was perfect... Just better than Tice has been. I think it was a mistake to dump him. Should have given him one more year. Just my opinion though.

Tice was a head coach not an OC so he never called his own plays, thus the steep learning curve this year. So I don't know why it makes a difference where he played college ball or that he was the head man in minny.

Great line coach, bad OC.

**rich1978** · 10-08-2012, 07:58 PM

You can only beat who is in front of you, and we're 4-1. I'd have taken that pre-season. also, our D is surprising to the upside and Marshall is the real deal. So far so good. Nothing is perfect, nothing is flawless but 4 & 1 baby, 4 & 1!

Much rather that than Pack being 2 & 3, or Lions being 1 & 3! In a league where things can change drastically year to year, you have to take the rough with the smooth and at the end of the day our record is all that matters.

For sure we have looked jittery on offence but the line seems to be improving and I believe that will help Cutler who is clearly a confidence player

So far so good. Enjoy it while it lasts, god knows we have seen enough dross in our time to appreciate being top dogs.

**Shark86x** · 10-08-2012, 07:59 PM

Originally Posted by XxMidwayMonstersxX

Does this worry anyone else?

Here are some numbers from the Bears opponents through 5 weeks:

The Bears opponents have allowed a total of 541 points while scoring only 429.
Through 5 weeks the combined record of all Bears opponents is 10 wins 13 losses.
3 of the 5 teams we have played did not have 4 wins last year.

1. W. 41-21
2. L. 10-23
3. W. 23 -6
4. W. 34-18
5. W. 41-3

Totals 149-71

I'd say 2.1-1 is pretty impressive through 5 weeks.

Now, to comment on bullet 1.... Bears have put up some big points. I'd say that skews your data. You interpret it as the Bears facing poor opponents. I interpret it as the Bears outscoring and making their opponents look bad.

Bullet 2. Had the Bears lost all their games, those numbers would be 15 wins 8 losses. Wow, those are some pretty darn good teams we beat.

Bullet 3. Last year means jack. Look at the Peckers. Look at the Vikings.

So to answer the original question, hell no! I ain't worried!

**XxMidwayMonstersxX** · 10-08-2012, 08:24 PM

You miss interperet the first point. It's not against the bears, it's against all the opponents combined, that takes the scew out of it. Can't be any skew in the data, we are not looking for sigma and this is not stats class.

Secondly we didn't lose. The W-L is what it is.

**4th and 26** · 10-08-2012, 08:29 PM

Originally Posted by BigClaws

This is where I stopped reading.

When did you ever learn how to read?

**4th and 26** · 10-08-2012, 08:34 PM

Originally Posted by XxMidwayMonstersxX

No I'm not kidding...

See my above post about the KC game last year.

Don't be a drone man, you sound like every other Marty hater out there. Yes you have a point, he wasn't perfect and he did make some poor calls. 7 step drops are hard to execute, so are 5 steps. But most fans don't even know what a 5 or 7 step drop is until some announcer says so. Some of those 5 and 7 steppers worked great, but you never heard about that did ya? I'm not arguing he was perfect... Just better than Tice has been. I think it was a mistake to dump him. Should have given him one more year. Just my opinion though.

Tice was a head coach not an OC so he never called his own plays, thus the steep learning curve this year. So I don't know why it makes a difference where he played college ball or that he was the head man in minny.

Great line coach, bad OC.

I am probably the only guy that ever stood up for Martz but there were times he kept forcing Jay into bad situations The bad thing for martz was having a qb that played behind the worst line and a shit load of cast off wrs. Forte and jay were pretty much the only two offensive weapons we had on this team. Earl Bennett maybe solid but injury prone. If Martz had the weapons we have now maybe we beat the packers or get Jay sacked 12 times.

**soulman** · 10-08-2012, 08:37 PM

Originally Posted by XxMidwayMonstersxX

No I'm not kidding...

See my above post about the KC game last year.

Don't be a drone man, you sound like every other Marty hater out there. Yes you have a point, he wasn't perfect and he did make some poor calls. 7 step drops are hard to execute, so are 5 steps. But most fans don't even know what a 5 or 7 step drop is until some announcer says so. Some of those 5 and 7 steppers worked great, but you never heard about that did ya? I'm not arguing he was perfect... Just better than Tice has been. I think it was a mistake to dump him. Should have given him one more year. Just my opinion though.

Tice was a head coach not an OC so he never called his own plays, thus the steep learning curve this year. So I don't know why it makes a difference where he played college ball or that he was the head man in minny.

Great line coach, bad OC.

Sorry Monster. You're entitled to your own opinion of course but I gotta tell you that this Martz > Tice as an OC is a dog that won't hunt around here.

I'm no typical Martz hater so don't go down that road. Martz work as the Bears OC has been pretty thoroughly discussed around here to the point of being beaten to death, dug up and beaten again while dead, then buried once more and we all pissed on his grave after the second memorial service. Best let sleeping dogs lie or in this case a dead horse.

I'm not saying that Mike Martz can't run any offense successfully, although his track record since his days with the Rams doesn't exactly look good on his resume, but I am saying that he didn't run the Bears offense successfully.

If we'd have kept him around we would have needed a spare body parts locker for Jay Cutler's. The guys uses up his QBs and gets them sacked way too often. I can assume you remember that we were setting records for most sacks allowed these last two years. Aside from that Martz forced some of the dumbest personnel acquisitions on this team that I ever saw and because we're speaking of the Jerry Angelo era here that's saying something.

Ches "the less" ter Taylor, Manu male, "uma God I missed another block" our 290lb FB, "Hands" Williams who Martz swore he could resurrect into an 80-100 catch a year WR. Trade a 50 catch per year TE because he wouldn't use him. Let's see. Did I miss anybody? Sorry the guy wasn't living in a world of anything but his own realities and 400 page play book that no one could execute.

He had to go.

Now I don't disagree with your last two paragraphs except the final sentence. You may be right but since he's still learning and far more in touch with the reality of his players abilities than Martz ever was as long as both he and Webb continue to improve a little bit every game I'm willing to live with those two for the time being.

Martz was never a good choice for an OC in Chicago and the only reason that he got the job is because Bates went elsewhere. Now Bates is here albeit as Tice assistant but in the end he'll be a very valuable assistant because he knows how to get the best out of Cutler and Marshall and my guess is Tice will listen to him. If Martz was still here there'd be no Jeremy Bates and in the long run that would have proven to have been a problem. Cutler will listen to Bates but he'd already stopped listening to Martz failed ideas and plans right after he told his QB coach to tell Martz to "go Fuck himself".

Cutler and Martz were not a good pairing and it's easier to find an OC than it is a franchise QB and anyone should know that it's another Bears fan.

**Shark86x** · 10-08-2012, 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by XxMidwayMonstersxX

You miss interperet the first point. It's not against the bears, it's against all the opponents combined, that takes the scew out of it. Can't be any skew in the data, we are not looking for sigma and this is not stats class.

Secondly we didn't lose. The W-L is what it is.

Yes, I understand the first point as not against the Bears, but all opponents combined. I'm just pointing out from the Bears scores that of course our opponents will have poorer records, because we beat them all, almost. And yes, again that is going against your perspective which is what I'm trying to point out.

It's more like Heisenberg's uncertainty principle than statistics. Feel free to interpret it your way. I'm interpreting it mine. Our opponents records are poor because we beat them.

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