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But he had a big say in who was on the team Rog, maybe not total, but still had a big say so it's lack of depth is partially on him.
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Originally Posted by
Riczaj01 
But he had a big say in who was on the team Rog, maybe not total, but still had a big say so it's lack of depth is partially on him.
Good points Ric. Emery seems to run a tighter ship than JA did with Lovie. But to quote the wisdom of "4th and 26"
I blame Jerry Angelo for not doing the same thing. 
Last edited by JustAnotherBearsFan99; 10-12-2012 at 11:14 AM.
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To a certain degree, yes. However, I don't really think Lovie was slamming his fist on the table and telling Jerry that he had to have Johnny Knox and Roy Williams as receivers, Omiyale on the line and Caleb Hanie as his backup QB.
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by the same toekn he was not slamming his fist saying give me a better wr corre then knox/williams, give me a better ol then omiyale, and I need a legit backup qb then Haine.
Remember it was after the SB that he was given more authority of the OC/DC and more input on the roster. That's when you saw a slow degridation of the OL and assistants and qb's and wr's. and an influx of failed DL and DB's.
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Okay guys here is what is real.
Lovie is here, Martz is not, Jerry Angelo is not.
What does that mean?
That means that that Martz and Angelo were responsible for the offense. JA was responsible for personnel decisions and Martz was responsible for getting WHOEVER he had ready.
If you think that is wrong, news flash, you are wrong. Why? Because Lovie is still here. Why wasnt Lovie fired if it was on him? Obviously theres a lot behind the scenes we don't know about. But its obvious we didn't fire Lovie because its not all his fault we had Caleb "Ooops I sh*t the bed again" Hanie and the other knuckle heads on offense that cost us the playoffs. Those guys fell way short of getting the Job done (Martz and Angelo). NOT LOVIE. It shows intellegence that ownership can differentiate that. Something most fans can't seem to do.
Go ahead and say it was on Lovie, say it until you are blue in the face, scream that you want him gone. He's not and you are wrong if you think last season was on him. Its not as simple as "hes the head coach, so anything that happens is ultimately on him" is just wrong. Clearly you haven't been part of many football teams lately.
Last edited by XxMidwayMonstersxX; 10-11-2012 at 06:14 PM.
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Originally Posted by
Riczaj01 by the same toekn he was not slamming his fist saying give me a better wr corre then knox/williams, give me a better ol then omiyale, and I need a legit backup qb then Haine.
Remember it was after the SB that he was given more authority of the OC/DC and more input on the roster. That's when you saw a slow degridation of the OL and assistants and qb's and wr's. and an influx of failed DL and DB's.
First off, we don't know that he wasn't arguing for better players in those spots. He could hate Johnny Knox for all we know, but he isn't going to trash him in the press.
As for the offensive line, I don't think Lovie had to much do with the line getting worse. Angelo's only really inspired move was signing John Tait. Other than that, the line worked out as well as it did in 05-06 because Angelo got lucky with a pair of 32 year-old free agents. Fred Miller and Ruben Brown found lightning in a bottle for a couple of seasons. It's great when signing past-their-prime vets works out, but you probably shouldn't count on that regularly. Sometimes you find Browns and Millers, other times you end up with John St. Claire, Orlando Pace and Frank Omiyale. Angelo didn't make drafting an offensive line a priority before the Superbowl, and I don't think his methods changed much afterwards. Since 2002, Carimi, Chris Willliams and Josh Beekman are the only offensive linemen we drafted before the 6th round.
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Rog, I merely took your theory and reversed it to prove the point you just made....we don''t know who/what he was arguing for or against. BUT we do know that he had a greater say in the roster after the SB.
That's not true, JA brought in just about all of the OL pre SB except for Kruetz via FA, don't have to find all your guys via the draft it's ability that matters. Why would he have put a priority on the OL via the draft when he built a stud OL just a few years prior. That OL was stocked full of good vets. It's the next few years when it started to fail that nothing was done. Pace was a classic Smith move, just like AA and Martz were all those guys were on teams he coached for previously and he obviously wanted to try and rebuild what was successfull in StL.
we all know how low the priority was for the OL Rog, the question becomes why and who is at fault JA, Lovie, both and if both how much of the blame is given to both? After the SB I think you could easily weight more of the issue on Lovie then prior to the SB.
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You don't have to find all your linemen via draft, but on the other hand, you can't completely skip them in the draft, plan on guys in their mid '30s holding up for several years and count on John Taits hitting free agency regularly. I think the biggest change pre and post superbowl was that Angelo's pre-SB signings on the o-line worked out, while the ones afterwards failed. I think it's as simple as that, and don't think the line was deprioritized when Lovie got more power. Regardless, I think it's better that Lovie doesn't have that power now. I hope that Emery sees improving the line as a big priority.
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Originally Posted by
XxMidwayMonstersxX Okay guys here is what is real.
Lovie is here, Martz is not, Jerry Angelo is not.
What does that mean?
That means that that Martz and Angelo were responsible for the offense. JA was responsible for personnel decisions and Martz was responsible for getting WHOEVER he had ready.
If you think that is wrong, news flash, you are wrong. Why? Because Lovie is still here. Why wasnt Lovie fired if it was on him? Obviously theres a lot behind the scenes we don't know about. But its obvious we didn't fire Lovie because its not all his fault we had Caleb "Ooops I sh*t the bed again" Hanie and the other knuckle heads on offense that cost us the playoffs. Those guys fell way short of getting the Job done (Martz and Angelo). NOT LOVIE. It shows intellegence that ownership can differentiate that. Something most fans can't seem to do.
This is exactly what infuriates me about guys that argue on Lovie's behalf. He is the HEAD COACH, he has responsibilities. The above comments simply ignore those responsibilities and all that has gone wrong with this team over the last several years is blamed on everyone BUT the HEAD COACH. The blame is either cast on those above him or those below him, but never him. Your logic is also skewed as to why you think I'm wrong, but I really don't feel like going into an in depth argument as to why you think the McCaskey family shows "intellegence".
Go ahead and say it was on Lovie, say it until you are blue in the face, scream that you want him gone. He's not and you are wrong if you think last season was on him. Its not as simple as "hes the head coach, so anything that happens is ultimately on him" is just wrong. Clearly you haven't been part of many football teams lately.
Wow Xx, are you a politician? This last paragraph is a typical political "Straw Man" argument, by exaggerating the opposing view, then attacking the exaggeration to make you opinion look valid.
First of all, I for one am not advocating (and certainly not screaming till I'm blue in the face) that I want Lovie gone; but is it too much to ask to wait and see how this season plays out before an extension is discussed (we know now that the reports were premature)? I also don't see ANYONE in this thread suggesting that last season was ALL on him, but for anyone to completely excuse the HEAD COACH for a teams mid season collapse, even with injuries, is kind of silly. Lovie HAS HAD say in the personnel decisions of this team, and if he doesn't; if he is as blameless for the deficiencies of this team over the last few years as those like you suggest, then he obviously has far less responsibility than he is getting paid for and should not get the CREDIT for the GOOD things that have happened as well.
All I'm saying is, lets wait and see. I like Lovie and I wish him and this team all the success we can find, but I'm not going to bury my head in the sand and make excuses for anyone either.
This is really all rather academic at this point based on the recent reports that this was simply a rumor.
The Greatest form of revenge is MASSIVE success.
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Originally Posted by
4DaBERS This is really all rather academic at this point based on the recent reports that this was simply a rumor.
Yes, 4daBERS I am a politician lol.
Secondly, I wish EVERYONE interested in this thread could have listened to 670 the SCORE this morning. It was a fantastic conversation comparing Lovie Smith to Dusty Baker, two guys who just couldn't ever get it done (according to the score).
If anyone knows how to get a transcript of the broadcast they should do so and post it here. It made us all look really smart lol, we should all be on the radio. Many of the same thoughts expressed here were explored on the show. Almost like they read our threads!!!
P.S. 4daBERS is a poo-poo head (take that!).
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