Thread: Rank Lovie Smith

Originally Posted by 4DaBERS

Whow, whow, whow!!!
We are only 5 games into this season and as one of the posters above mentioned in his own thread "we haven't beaten anyone yet". Should I remind everyone that we have made the playoffs exactly once in 5 seasons

Yes, but the "once" was 2010, and we were on pace to make them last year as well before injuries smacked us down. And we are on pace to make them this year as well...and if we do, then that wouldve been 3 years in a row essentially.

Well, that really has been the best that anyone has been able to defend Lovie with - who else can we get that is better? No one has really been able to say that he is one of the top coaches or has one of the best records. His biggest defense has been that he is good and who else would we get. Is that the criteria we want?

Don't we want to say that as the first team in the NFL and one of the hallmark NFL teams, we should get a coach with one of the top records? Is good enough really good enough? I agree that we don't want to get rid of Lovie just because. That is stupid. The odds of getting worse are higher than getting better. All I am saying is that I think that Chicago deserves one of the best. We are never happy unless we have one of the top defenses. What is wrong with the same expectations for HC?

And I am sure that the response to that is "ok fine, tell me who". And that is valid. IMO, that is the biggest reason for keeping Lovie - I just don't think it is a good reason. Cowler may be able to be persuaded. I don't know when Harboughs contract is over, but he has connections to Chicago and might be pursuaded. The other problem we have is that a very top tier coach also wants control of the team and we have Emery there. That is going to further limit our options. So yes - the question of "tell me who is better that we can get" is a real issue. I am counting on Emery to be able to crack that nut if he decides that is what he wants to do.

With the D playing as well as it is, I see us getting into playoffs. Lovie may not have to worry about it. I have no idea how good is good enough for Emery. We'll see what happens.

Originally Posted by The Benjamin

Lovie is technically 12th in terms of winning percentage. But I would say he is 10th, because of small sample sizes (only one season) for two of the coaches ahead of him.

Lovie is a good coach, IMHO, and the players love him. You want a guy who has the respect of your players at the helm.

People say they want a better HC, but who would you want? Who that is available is better than Lovie? And those that are better are already taken and our chances of getting one of them are nil. I am perfectly happy with Lovie here.

8 out of 32 is top 25th percentile. I feel that the Bears should strive to be top 10% (seeing as they are the charter member - that's what they should always want to be).

If you take the numbers out of it, this quickly dissolves into a subjective discussion. I think I would agree that Loive is somewhere between top quarter and top 3rd in the league. I believe you said the same. So I think we agree where Lovie is at. Question is, is that where you want to be if you can get someone better? Then the next question is, CAN you get someone better? I think the answer to the first one is no (at least for me). The question to the second is much harder. I think we can, but it won't be easy. And I would not want to take a marginal shot - in other words the switch to someone who is percieved to be just marginally better is not worth the risk nor the change in continuity. However, If we could get a top three coach, yes, I would be all over that. Can we? --honestly a difficult task.

But I don't think that means you don't keep wanting it. You get better by always wanting to be the very best - not top three, but the very top. I think that has to start with a mentallity that top 25% to top 33% is not where we want to be. Just my opinion, but that's the way I look at it.

Originally Posted by The Benjamin

You want to hear it? Okay. Is Lovie one of the best coaches currently coaching in the NFL? I say he is. Is he the best? No, but he is (winning percentage aside) one of the better coaches in the NFL. Even with the winning percentages, take out the two who have only coached one year (small sample sizes) and he is easily a top 10 coach.

Or, if you say small sample sizes do not count, add in the records from this year, and Lovie moves up two spots anyway.

But let's look at the 11 coaches ahead of him in winning percentage. Let's see if they are better coaches.

San Francisco 49ers	Jim Harbaugh	2011	13-3	.813	1 NFC West Championship 1 Playoff Berths |1 AP Coach Of The Year Award
Baltimore Ravens	John Harbaugh	2008	44-20	.688	1 AFC North Championship 4 Playoff Berths
Pittsburgh Steelers	Mike Tomlin	2007	55-25	.688	1 Super Bowl Championship 2 AFC Championship 3 AFC North Championships 4 Playoff Berths
Atlanta Falcons	Mike Smith	2008	43-21	.672	1 NFC South Championship 3 Playoff Berths 1 AP Coach of the Year Award
Green Bay Packers	Mike McCarthy	2006	63-33	.653	1 Super Bowl Championship 1 NFC Championship 2 NFC North Championship 4 Playoff Berths
New Orleans Saints	Sean Payton	2006	62-34	.646	1 Super Bowl Championship 1 NFC Championship 3 NFC South Championships 3 Playoff Berths 1 AP Coach of the Year Award
New England Patriots	Bill Belichick	2000	175-97	.643	3 Super Bowl Championships 5 AFC Championships 9 AFC East Championships 10 Playoff Berths 2 AP Coach of the Year Awards

I think arguments for these seven being better (record aside) are very valid. Small sample sizes or not, these guys are an amazing bunch.

Philadelphia Eagles	Andy Reid	1999	126-81–1	.605	1 NFC Championship 5 NFC East Championships 9 Playoff Berths 1 AP Coach of the Year Award
New York Jets	Rex Ryan	2009	28-20	.583	2 Playoff Berths
Washington Redskins	Mike Shanahan	2010	154-110	.583	2 Super Bowl Championships 2 AFC Championships 3 AFC West Championships 7 Playoff Berths

Credentials are great for these three, but I think that Lovie is better both Reid and Ryan. And it isn't even close. Shanny, hell of a resume as well, but add in this years record, Lovie is barely behind him. If winning percentage is really what you want to look at to determine who is a better coach.

The final coach ahead of Lovie on the winning percentage list

Tennessee Titans

Mike Munchak

2011

9-7

.563

Jury is still out on him, and if you add in this years record, Lovie passes him up as well.

Then we have the one you singled out (who before the year started) had a winning percentage tied with Lovie

New York Giants

Tom Coughlin

2004

142-114

.555

2 Super Bowl Championships 2 NFC Championships 3 NFC East Championships 2 AFC Central Championships 5 Playoff Berths

Add in this year's record and Lovie and he are no longer tied. However, credentials are better, no doubt.

So, I think an argument can easily be made that Lovie at worst is the eighth best active coach. Just based on watching them. But, what else would you deem as a successful coach? Getting a team to a Super Bowl? Or winning a Super Bowl? Okay, let's look at that.

Six of the other coaches on the list above Lovie in terms of winning percentage have gotten their team to the Super Bowl at least once.

Tomlin, McCarthy, Payton, Belichick, Reid, Shanahan.

For shits and giggles (since they were tied going into the season), we will add Coughlin to the list.

Only Six of them won the Super Bowl. So we will put them ahead of Lovie easily.

Tomlin, McCarthy, Payton, Belichick, Shanahan and Coughlin.

Again, Lovie is at least 7th best active coach.

How about the one who made the Super Bowl and did not win?

Reid. He has made the playoffs nine times, while Lovie only made the playoffs three times.

So, using that, Lovie is knocked down to number 8. Having the eighth best active coach, pretty damn good if you ask me.

Benji - we agree on quite a bit but we are disagreeing on the conclusion.

I think both viewpoints are valid. Just different risk tolerances, expectation, or biases -- or maybe some of all three. I certainly have no issues with your viewpoint, nor am I saying you are wrong. I just think when you can, you take a shot - otherwise you don't ever move forward. Some of the teams that take risks move back and some move forward. It just depends on how good the people are that are tasked with mitigating the risks. I trust Emery and would be willing to bet that if he let Lovie go for someone else, that he thought it was going to be a pretty good bet.

Probably won't happen, but I would be behind him if he did. (and not in the Sandusky way)

Originally Posted by The Benjamin

You always want to be the best and have the best. No one is saying otherwise. But the Bears do have one of the best. Can you get better? As you said, yes. There are seven coaches at best who are better than he is. Can you get one? Would be very difficult because if you are one of the best, chances of your current employer letting you go is very slim. Anyway you want to break it down, Lovie Smith IS one of the best Head Coaches in the NFL.

If one of those coaches that are better than Lovie some how is released or walks away, would it be worth firing Lovie for the chance to get one? I would say no. If you swing and miss, you screw yourself over by firing over one of the best coaches just for a chance to get one of those that are better. Keep Lovie until the job passes him by. At the moment, there is no reason to release Lovie. Until he shows that he is inept (misses the playoffs this year) or the players start tuning him out, I see no reason not to keep him.

Benj I've got a real problem with Jim Harbaugh being in there.

I know you said sample size was an issue, I read you. But I don't even think he deserves credit for the team he has currently. I think Singletary did one HELL of a job in San Fran before he was fired. Those guys didn't know which way was up before Singletary got there. You don't go from 6-10 to 13-3 over night. No, the foundation was there before Harbaugh got there. I followed the 2010 season closely, I knew they were going to be really tough in 2011.

Singletary was a disciplinarian type of coach. The disciplinarian style will only get you so far. Thats why he had to go. Other than that he did a great job. Only trouble is Harbaugh always gets all the credit, the jury is still out on him for me. I think in a conversation like this, you have to sideline anyone who hasn't been a HC for 5 or more years (recently and in a row).