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I'm curious what you guys think. Is Ron Turner or Mike Martz the better offensive coordinator. If you HAD to hire one as OC, which one would you choose?
Be sure to take into consideration the talent level each one had to work with here. And Ron had two tenures here.
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...S-zyFsJuRnhJ6u
http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2009/1209...turner_600.jpg
I'd have to take Martz, at least he wasn't as predictable. My daughter, who was 10 in Turner's last year, could predict what play was coming next with about 80% accuracy.
RT got the bears w/less then HoF talent on O to a SB and a NFCC by keeping the O out of the D's way. His biggest accomplishment was taking garbage and turning it merely below average after the SB. constant degrading of OL, bad WR's, aveage at best TE's, average QB, average to great RB. I, like many laughed at his awfull playcalling the last few years, but w/no OL, no WR's, and Orton/Forte/Olsen, what else could he have done but call run run, quick throw, quick throw.
MM got the StL to a SB w/HoF talent at QB, LT, WR and RB and a less then great D. Everywhere else he's failed miserably. While in Chi he was unable/willing to change his scheme to our talents.
Over a career Martz is; while in Chicago I'd give the nod to Turner; he did more w/less and was capable of adjusting his scheme to help the talent he had to work with look better then it was.
man cant wait until the bye week is over before we get into conversations about shoop lol
on a serious note though not counting dealing with talent martz got one thing out of cutler no other oc or hc did even in denver and that is more control with turnovers
Gotta go with Ric...Turner.
South park did this already Giant douche vs. turd sandwich
Ron Turner had a good offensive line in 2005 and 2006 when the Bears went to the playoffs. He was unable to develop anyone to replace that FA o-line as it deteriorated, and as a result never saw a playoff game again. IMO, the Bears went to a SB on the back of the D and special teams despite Ron Turner, and lost because he would not stop throwing long bombs in a rainstorm against a bad run defense but capable cornerbacks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Riczaj01
Martz got here and had to deal with the awful offensive line left by his predecessor. To improve this line, he was given Tice and Webb. That's a big bag of shit to have to eat.
All things considered, Martz got us to an NFC championship with the #32 ranked offensive line, and we were on our way to the playoffs in 2011 with the #31st ranked o-line. Now Martz was absolutely horrible at judging FA talent, but if we are talking OC and QB level coaching, I'd give it to Martz.
I wouldn't want either for my OC, but if a gun were put to my head and I had to pick one, I'd have to go with Turner.
The game has long since passed Martz by.
Martz was delusional, thinking he could make his old offensive scheme work in the modern NFL. It was like he'd hammer that square peg and force it into the round hole, no matter what. It wasn't about the players he had. It was about him thinking he was brilliant, and the players didn't matter.
Martz was totally inflexible. He had to control everything. He didn't believe in the no huddle. He didn't believe in using TE's as receivers. Martz didn't believe in allowing audibles. He didn't believe in big receivers (Martz: “Wide receiver size doesn't make any difference, it makes absolutely no difference"). He did believe in lots of 7-step drops with Webb at LT "protecting" Cutler's blind side.
Martz will never be hired to be an OC again. Never. He's respected for what he did years ago, but he's recognized as being inflexible, refusing to change with the times.
Ron Turner built a solid offense for us during his first tenure here. He had better talent overall, than his 2nd tour with the Bears. I thought this was interesting regarding his first tour here:
Quote:
LINK to the article
The Bears team completion percentages in 1994 (61.4%) and 1995 (60.2%) rank as the highest in team history.
Chicago’s net passing yard total of 3,743 in 1995 ranks second in team annals while the total of 3,185 in 1996 was pushed to sixth in team history by the team’s totals from 2006 and 2007.[1] With Erik Kramer at quarterback in 1995, the Bears set a team record for passing yards per game with 233.9 while compiling the fifth-most points in team history with 392.
Kramer set club records with 29 touchdown passes and 10 interceptions (least among 16-game starters).[1] The 1995 squad produced the third-most total net yards (5,673) and the second-most first downs (340) in team history.
The offense also featured a 1,000-yard rusher and two 1,000-yard receivers in 1995, the only such season in team history.
During his earlier four years with the Bears as offensive coordinator/quarterbacks coach under head coach Dave Wannstedt, Turner guided some of the most prolific offenses in club history.
wnmol, i'm not saying rt was great, but he had wrex as his qb, no hands moose and berrian as his wr's; and he was going against Indy so he knew that the O had to score. besides those 2 years of OL talent he had none on the O side of the ball; what could he have done?
Martz had no OL, but had talent at QB, RB, TE(not that he used it), and sadly better wr's(knox/bennett)>(moose/berrian).
Our tight ends of Gilmore and Clark were far more capable at blocking than Olsen and the oaf Kellen Davis. I think Davis is terrible and wish we had parted ways over the offseason with that clod. Give me Martellius Bennett any day of the week over that big bag of blocking suckitude.Quote:
Originally Posted by Riczaj01
Turner had a great RB core in 2005 and 2006. And I'd say his WR core of Moose/ Berrian/ Gage/ Wade was better than the 2010 team of Hester/ Knox/ Bennett. Turner just managed to get less out of his players as evidenced by Gage and Wade's stepped up performance on the Titans and Vikings. Saying Berrian was bad on the Bears is a misquote of the past. His performance for us put him in contention for big money over Briggs. Once Berrian got that payday from the Vikings, his motivation to play was ruined. That's why he was awful in Minnesota.
That WR group in 2010 had almost zero experience, but Martz was able to develop them. Turner couldn't even get Bennett on the field his rookie year. Martz got almost 1000 yards out of Knox in 2010. Of course he almost got the poor guy killed in 2011, so that takes away from his desirability as an OC.
But I'd compare what they were able to get done with the same players. In 2009, Jay Cutler looked terrible under Turner. Awful. 26 interceptions with 35 sacks. Martz had more sacks because he's inflexible, but Mad Mike broke down Jay's mechanics and had 18 interceptions with so much more hurries and 52 sacks.
Jay went to a Pro Bowl in 2008. Jay looked like a busted trade in 2009 because of Turner. In 2010, Jay was much improved even with less protection. It was not Shane Day's QB coaching that caused that.
Martz > Turner